How Introverts Can Master Book Promotion and Thrive in the Spotlight with Jessica Waite | Ep. 34

Are you an author wondering how to promote your book without compromising who you are? 

Host Allison Lane sits down with Jessica Waite, bestselling author of The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards, to discuss how introverted authors can confidently step into the spotlight while staying true to themselves.

Jessica shares her journey from writing her deeply personal memoir to navigating the highs and challenges of a successful book launch. Learn how to prepare for media opportunities, build your author brand, and create a buzz around your book—all while staying authentic. Don’t miss her tips on turning your vulnerabilities into your greatest strengths as a storyteller.

🎧 Listen now and transform the way you approach your book launch!

What You’ll Learn:

• Why starting early is essential for a successful book launch.
• How to speak about your book in a way that resonates without overwhelming yourself.
• How to serve your audience through storytelling without feeling like you’re “selling.”

Resources Mentioned:

• Jessica Waite’s Website: jessicawaite.work
• Book Mentioned: The Widow’s Guide to Dead Bastards by Jessica Waite: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781668044858 
• Book Recommendation: Takedown by Ali Bryan: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781770867406 
• Podcast Mentioned: I Don’t Know How You Do It with Jessica Fein: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-know-how-you-do-it/id1668168226 
• Media Coverage:
  • Chatelaine Magazine: https://chatelaine.com/living/books/best-summer-2024-books/ 
  • Toronto Star: https://www.thestar.

Your book launch is your chance to build your visibility and grow your audience. In the Bestseller Launch School guided program, I'll show you how to get buzz before your book hits the shelves, master pre-orders and early sales to get attention and keep sales going long after launch day. Live trainings start April 30th - June 11. Grab your seat now: https://lanelit.com/bestseller 

 No matter how you're publishing, you need to launch your book like a pro. Join me 7-week guided program: Bestseller Launch School. Live trainings start April 30. Grab your seat NOW!  https://lanelit.com/bestseller  

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Transcript

Jessica: 1:34

Having good, trusted people in your corner, I can't say enough about how important that is.

Allison: 2:02

And welcome back to the Author's Edge, where we are helping you market yourself as an author and the author you know you're meant to be. We dive into the art and the strategy of connecting your words with the world. Now, today we're diving in to also the stories behind the story. I'm thrilled to introduce this next author, but I want you to know that she's an introvert. Her path to publishing is like everyone's unique and that she's going to share her genius when it comes to getting out of your introvert shell or staying in it and still being comfortable. Welcome to the show Jessica Waite, her memoir has been called lyrical and witty and deeply moving. This is her debut. The Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards. It's been praised and lauded for its raw honesty and unflinching exploration of grief and forgiveness and betrayal. I'll let you read it. We'll put it in the show notes. I want to dig in and talk to Jessica now about imperfect glory and complexities of mental health. And what it means to step in to be a spokesperson for your book and yourself as an author. Jessica, welcome to the show!

Jessica: 3:33

Allison, thank you so much for having me. It is a joy to be able to be here on this side of the process and talk to you.

Allison: 3:40

Your book just came out. So, it's December, your book came out in July and within weeks it was a bestseller. It was chalking up media recos, very high level, national in Canada, national in the U S getting a lot of accolades, and yet your book is such an intimate look at your life. And I know you now because we've worked together for a little bit to big reveal Jessica and I worked together to prepare for her launch. What's the hardest part about sharing your story or the other side of that is how did you make it easier for yourself to step into the limelight?

Jessica: 4:30

Yeah, thanks. I love that. And so just to reiterate, thank you for making me feel seen by saying what an introvert I am. I'm an introvert times a million. And so, one of the things that I knew, I deeply believed in this book. I felt compelled to write it. And I knew that when the time came, if it were ever to see the light of day, that I wanted to be a good ambassador for it. And so, somehow I was going to have to prepare myself and be the best spokesperson and representative that I could for that. And so, one of the things that I did quite early on was start to. I looked at what other people were doing. But I knew that as an introverted person, some of those things were not going to fit for me. And so, it really was a matter of like you said, finding the way I could be myself. Like most fully myself and also represent this book in the best way that I could. And that was one of the things that working with you helped me to prepare because it gave me time to just do little trial balloons. Little trials of things to see what fits and what doesn't. And what will I be able to successfully do and meet those objectives of being a good representative. And what's just going to make me want to wither and die and then don't do the weather and die things. Yeah.

Allison: 5:38

Nobody, not even the biggest extrovert wants to, well, now, I'm ready to talk about me. And especially, when you're writing memoir. It feels like you're about to disrobe in front of a group of strangers and hope that they like what they see.

Jessica: 5:56

Yeah.

Allison: 5:56

I don't know that's really what the kind of pressure we want to put on ourselves. Public speaking is no one's favorite thing. It's not even my favorite thing. And I would say, I fall in between introvert and extrovert cause I do like my alone time for sure. The thing that you did that was so in my view, smart is that you started with months ahead. I think we started talking in December or January and you said, I want to start in January because I want to have enough time because my launch is in July.

Jessica: 6:33

End of July. Yeah, end of July. So, that was almost seven months before, we'll say. And I had been tracking you for a while because I knew I had this on my radar screen even before that as I was watching what other people were doing. And so, I think that being aware of the launch, even before you have an agent, a deal, anything like to know that at some point, however, it's going to come into the world. You're going to release this book and to try to take some steps to be ready is really smart. Because so much of it is incremental, like you're like disrobe. But before you do that, you have to try showing your pinky, do you know what I mean? Just like, and then build up from there and just learn how to do a little bit at a time because it encourages like any kind of muscle like you can build it up with reps. And so, yeah, that's part of it too.

Allison: 7:19

I've never heard you say that, but that is mind blowing. That's a mic drop moment right there. What it's to say it again, the courage is..

Jessica: 7:26

Is like a muscle. You like that you can do build it up with reps like that. I just do little things and because you're not only am I an introvert, but my book talks about the most intimate details of my life, my marriage, my belief system, and things that are really confronting. Like I don't talk about that socially, right? And so then, to be able to talk publicly about that, I realized that I had a lot of obstacles to overcome and I was going to have to do it incrementally. And so, some of that is learning how to talk about it socially. And that's one of the things I think I learned a lot from you and the speakers that you've brought in. Like you had someone come in and talk to us about how to introduce yourself, like how to talk about yourself in a way where what you do solves a problem for the other person. I can't remember exactly what her, I can't remember her.

Allison: 8:12

Chris Jones.

Jessica: 8:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Allison: 8:14

Chris Jones is a story brand guide.

Jessica: 8:17

Yeah. And so then, you need to be able to do that for yourself, but also with your book, with your story. And think about the things so instead of saying I think I used to say if people said, what's your book about? I'd be like it's a grief memoir and a posthumous love story. Which it is that, but that's not meaningful to people and they would want to shrink away and then I would feel like that does not build your confidence when people shrink away from what you're saying. So, it's like figuring out ways that you can talk about it, that engages people and then having that engagement with other people starts to build your confidence to speak about your book, your topic, whatever that thing is.

Allison: 8:52

What's your book about is the hardest question because you as an author have spent so much time crafting all the words into phrases and the phrases into sentences that you want to give like an outline in a few moments of it's about this and this is what happens in the book. But that's not really the question. The question people are asking is; so, you wrote a book, why will I care about it?

Jessica: 9:19

Yeah, exactly right. And when I had my first meeting with the acquiring editor, who eventually bought my book. He asked me, what do you want this book to do in the world? I can't remember exactly what I said, but I said three things. And then, after I gave that answer, he said, educate, entertain, inspire. And he's, we're looking for books that you can have a successful book that does one of those things. But if you have a book that does all three, you're going to have a bestseller. So, when people are thinking about their own book what are you going to, what is your book going to do? Think about how does it educate? How does it entertain? How does it inspire? And then, just pick one way that it does those things. And then, answer with some way that you don't say it like, it inspires because of this.

Allison: 9:59

You don't have to fill in the blank.

Jessica: 10:01

No, exactly. So, you pick something about it that's inspiring and then let the person that you're with, like take the conversation from there. And so, anyway, I learned that much later than I wish I did about how to talk about it. Because I intellectually understood that. But that was one of the things that I think we can all learn and practice and there's lots of time to.

Allison: 10:20

Right. And I remember when we were writing your bio, I think it was for the back of, everyone starts with a bio that looks like a condensed version of their resume. I am a writer or I am a book coach and we removed all the phrases about, I am and because they're there, they're assumed they're invisible. But we know that they're there. We know that you're a writer because you wrote a book because we picked up the book. But what was left was really the value for other people. And it took the pressure off of you. I remember you saying,'Oh my gosh, you mean when I'm interviewed, they're not actually focusing on me. I don't even need to say I'm an expert in grief.' No, nobody wants to be an expert in grief. You're there to serve. You're there to help. Even when you're being interviewed about being an author or about the book itself. You're there to serve people and help. I heard you on Jessica Fine's podcast, I Don't Know How You Do It, which I love. And the two of you we're doing so much to serve and help without saying, and this is what's in my book and here's by my book. And I loved that podcast episode so much. I listened to it twice and then I downloaded it onto my phone because I was like, Oh, but secondly, proud moment for me, two clients who are geniuses. But that switch of before you even get to your book event, you have to be able to represent or pitch your book to, Hey, I want to be on this podcast. Here's a little about me. Please don't start with I'm a writer. And when you had that breakthrough, I remember you going, Oh, my gosh, I don't need to say that.

Jessica: 12:12

Yeah, it's just so nice to know I have to feel like things are about you. Like your memoir is not really about you. Except that you're the author and the central character. But it's about whatever you're going through and that other people go through that. So, like that part I understood, but it's so hard to just, I don't know, represent yourself well but not feel like you're sticking all the attention for yourself or something like that. And so, that was the part that I think you helped me see. It's just get that out of the way and the parts that are, you are like supporting the value that's for the other person. But you don't have to be upfront with that. So yeah, that's nice to take that pressure off.

Allison: 12:49

When you began stepping forward, you're at your book launch event in New York and also there was one in Toronto. And you, once again, had to be in the limelight because someone has to be in the limelight with you. When we talked about how to make that easier for you, having a moderator takes the pressure off because then you're not dancing, like tap dancing in front of people and having to facilitate a conversation of one or feel like you're doing stand up. Having the conversation, I think takes that pressure off. Have you then continued with that? Or is that how you also found that kind of dynamic to be helpful because you've done quite a few events since then.

Jessica: 13:36

Yeah. I think what you're talking about is like how I think of it is like understanding that there are different roles in any event. And that we are all supporting each other. And so, that if you're there with a moderator, the focus is on you and you just have to answer the questions. But you don't have to think of everything and do all the introductions relate to the audience. And so, it's just like letting you relax into the role that you're doing. So, whatever that is, however you're guesting. When I was sick, I watched the Taylor Swift eras show the all three and a half hours on TV. And it was really interesting to watch someone be a star, like she's a star. Do you know what I mean? She loves the limelight, that is so opposite of me. But what I was learning from watching her about times when you have to step in front, and is I watched how she would like the audience loves her, she knows that. She takes their love in, and then she receives it, and then she pushes it right back out to them. And so, everybody feels seen, and valued, and respected. Both of them, the star and the audience both. And so, I think it's pretty rare in somebody's life like mine that you're going to be like the star. And so, not knowing how to do that, like how would I know, right? Like most of the work that I've ever done has been unsigned, unrecognized, and a lot have been unpaid. But I learned that it's just about that, the same things that you do, seeing, recognizing, respecting, and then watching someone who's really good at it is inspirational too. So, I would just name that for all the introverted people, watch people who are good and see what they do and practice that thing.

Allison: 15:06

Yeah. Taylor Swift is a great example. I think when you first started reaching out to podcasts, I remember you saying, once I have one podcast, like I don't want to be saying the same thing all the time. Because we created a a list of topics that you're going to talk about and stories that you're going to tell. And that thought of, I'm going to be repeating myself. Aren't people going to get bored with me? I know that's not true because no one could get bored with you. But every conversation is different, I hope. Can you talk a little bit about how you still maintain a kind of a core message tank?

Jessica: 15:47

Yeah. So, that's been interesting because I was a little bit worried about not wanting to sound like a robot just repeating talking points or how do you bring things new and interesting for different interviews. And it does evolve organically because like you said, every conversation is different. People are interested in variations on the same thing. And so you can talk about things differently. And it's been really nice, like that each conversation is a bit of practice and that you get to distill. So, over time, again, like you're building up a bit of a more distilled way of articulating what you want to say. And I actually had a really amazing opportunity to do like a national, like one of the premier radio programs. And be interviewed by a really skilled interviewer. And it was so great because he's a great interviewer, but I had practiced a lot saying the things. And so, I ended up feeling like the interview went really well because I had repeated certain things over and over. I knew what I wanted to say, but I could still make it new and interesting. And so, I think, yeah, that can happen organically. How about you? Because I hear you say the same things a lot of time, but it helps me remember. But you say it in different ways and bring in new examples and that sort of thing. So, is it something you struggle with at all?

Allison: 16:58

I used to struggle with muddying the water. And that is something that when you grow up in PR agencies, like I did, and big brands. You learn that you've got to choose the one way that's the most impactful way that you deliver an idea. And what muddies things is when you say the thing and you get a big gasp and then, you say,'yeah, and it's like this too.' And then, the person receiving it is, Oh, I was gasping at that, but now I have to integrate the new words that you just gave me when now you gave me twice as many words. Now, it's not so potent. And what people usually do is they say things three times. So, that's just a big swirl of mud. Don't do it. The best way you could land on the words is to practice with someone and record yourself. And whenever they say,'Oh my gosh, that hit me so hard.' You're recording it. Even if you're recording it using otter.ai which is free. And you can tuck it into your bra if you're giving a talk or put it behind a book stack. But I usually, I want it close to my, you know, where the voice is coming. And look at the transcript and pull out the few phrases that make people stop. And make a list of those. When I started doing that, I could see, wow, I don't need all of these other ways. People get my point the most when I say, you are the brand and your book is the product. You're in charge of your brand.' And that is why your website should be your name. That is why when you're talking about the themes that you write about, you don't have to always relate it to this one book, or the podcast that you're on, or the article that you wrote because you are the brand. And your book is a product. And it was delightful to delete the other versions.

Jessica: 20:01

Well, it's nice because it's muddying your brain too, right? So, you don't need to think, hold nine ways to say it. And just say it and then let it land. Which is really, that's in service so much. Just say it and then make space for the person to absorb it instead of continuing to talk. So, Yeah.

Allison: 20:19

And it's sometimes people don't want to let go of the runners up, the phrases that didn't quite make it. And that's fine. Keep all of those in one document, call it parking lot, and maybe you'll use those later. Nothing's ever wasted. Maybe you'll use those an article or a different conversation.

Jessica: 20:40

Well, indefinitely, if you're talking about the same thing over and over, you have more than one, it's your most effective one. But other people relate to things in different ways. So, having way to say it in a different conversation might hit other people just as hard, but you're not, you're just not being repetitive. So, yeah. And I would say, like the idea of getting the transcript, I got that from you too like go back and see what. I don't know about other people, but I have amnesia. When I come out of an interview or podcast, I'm like all I know is like how I feel if I feel like it went well, or I feel like I'm not sure I'm nervous. But I don't remember what I said. And so, yeah, I've waited sometimes for like, how is it going to be? And then, I do listen back to them. At first, I used to do it to be like, what the heck did I say? And also like, how embarrassed should I be that this is going into the world? But what I did by listening backwards also I learned like what I was saying that hit me and so those are my most powerful things to say and then I could, that helped me with the distillation process too. So, I know a lot of people don't like listening to the sound of their voice. So, that's a one thing I'd say work on yourself to overcome that because you can, Boost yourself up so much by listening back.

Allison: 21:49

That was a nicer way of saying, you have to get used to listening to your own voice. You just have to get over it because you will never improve unless you can take a look at what you did and what people asked you. If you're not looking at the transcript or listening to the podcast, you're not taking note of the different ways people ask the same question

Jessica: 22:17

Yeah.

Allison: 22:17

Those insights can lead you to how to pitch yourself to maybe a conferences, to speak at a conference. Or how to put together your next book idea. The people rephrase questions all the time. How do I prep for a podcast? How do I pitch a podcast? What makes a good podcast title? Which podcast do you think I should be on? The number of ways and angles on any one topic, there are at least, 15 angles for every story. Which is I made a list of them and now I give it as a checklist. Because you need to know there are all kinds of ways people phrase questions and you want to use those as maybe content for your website. Maybe you didn't realize that there was a thread in the book that you weren't talking about as much that offers a new opportunity. One of the threads in your book is financial independence. And that's not something that you lead with because it's not as obvious. But it is something that you decided you wanted to talk about. And you've had an opportunity to do that. Right? In some ways.

Jessica: 23:38

Yes. So, I was invited to speak about will and estate planning because it's such an important thing for people because they don't consider don't want to have those conversations and it's an easy topic to avoid. Yeah. So, that is one of the ways, there's so many things that a book can be about and so many things that we can talk about that are. And one of the things that I've learned subsequent to my book coming out that surprised me was how many people had a direct experience of the thing that I had gone through because people don't talk about it very much. And so, that was something that I realized that no matter what anyone's topic is, there's probably way more people out there who are interested than you can even imagine. And I'm happy to report on that. I'm not happy that lots of people have been through painful, like things that they're super ashamed and don't talk about because the culture doesn't support that. But I'm happy that as alone and isolating as it feels when you're writing. And if that feeling of who cares, no one cares, no one's going to care. There are people who care. So, I can attest to that.

Allison: 24:41

And deeply, and those people become ambassadors for your message. And it makes them more comfortable to talk about their own experience. So, again, you're serving and not selling.

Jessica: 24:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Allison: 24:55

Which makes everybody feel good. Your path to publishing is super unique, so we're not going to get into a ton of it. But you did get an agent and then sell your book rather quickly. What's something that's a surprising truth about the publishing path that most authors and aspiring authors should know, but don't.

Jessica: 25:22

I think I'd love to answer it in two parts because there's sides of seeing point. But one of them is that there's no one publishing path is going to be the be all end all to your happiness, to your lasting happiness and joy. So, it doesn't really matter what kind of deal you get. There's going to be joys and pitfalls to all of them. So that's one of the things that I think is true. And then, the other one is even if you have like I had the gold standard big five publisher. There was still a lot of room for me to act on my own behalf. And I think they really appreciated that I prepared in advance, that I worked with the publicity team, but I also did some pitching on my own. I had a lot of stuff ready to go for them. And yeah, I think just really understanding. Like you say, you're the brand and your book is the product. I'm like, even if you have an agent, you're the agent of your own hopes, dreams, and life. And so, yeah, that you just retain a lot of the ability to act on your own behalf.

Allison: 26:18

That is powerful. You are the agent of your own book dreams, will, and life. Boy, I'm gonna make a t shirt. That is so powerful. Especially, because you were not surprised when your publisher came to you and asked for something and expected you to turn it around the next day. Hey, we drafted something for the back cover. Can you take a look? If you don't know that's coming and that it's going to be slightly different than what you've ever written, that could throw you into, I don't know what good looks like, or what does the sales catalog copy look like? It's actually different but similar. And so, all of these versions of your book description are cousins. They're not identical twins. But you knew, and sometimes you would say, that's not actually how I want to pitch it. And because they're looking to you for input.

Jessica: 27:18

Yes. Yes. So, they do look to you for input. And then, the other thing is I don't know if this is the same for everyone, but there are big lulls of time when nothing's happening for your book. Like it's like a wheel going around and then when it's your turn, lots of things are happening. And when it's someone else's turn, nothing's happening for your book. And so, that is the window. It's like waiting for the bus to come or something. But when the bus comes, it's not a bus to ride on. It's start doing all of the activities. So, use that time productively. That's what I think that I did effectively by learning with you, and then getting the materials ready, all of that stuff. Because the other thing is opportunities, like sometimes media opportunities come so fast, like you'll just get an email. It's like urgent. Can you be on this thing at two o'clock today. And it's like 1045 and you're just like, what? And so, you don't want to pass that up. But if you don't have all the things that you need, and if you don't have your speaking points and the ability to just show up and do it, then that will just pass you by. And so, yeah, I was a bit surprised by how short notice some of the stuff is. And how glad I was to be prepared.

Allison: 28:25

Part of the nuts and bolts of what you need is a headset. But you have to have good audio. You have to consider that you have something behind you. We don't want it to be a pile of dirty laundry. We don't want you to look like you're in a dark corner, hiding from the Grinch. And if you feel like, I don't know where to be. Then that can really ruin your mojo for delivering an interview that's thoughtful. And that considers what the journalist or the podcast host is trying to do. So, it might seem like these are tactics, but it sure does help to know. Even look behind you now, you've got your cover there on the wall. Which I think I remember us talking about hey, let's get I mean, in the wall, whatever. And all you have to do is send them your cover. And if you don't have a book yet, you still want some kind of background. It could be your favorite books. It's nice when it's a real thing and not one of those like AI strange things that's the the fake blur thing or the. Yeah, because it makes it look like you're hiding something. It's okay, just paint a wall, something, anything.

Jessica: 29:42

Yeah, I get sometimes for whatever reason people have to use those. But it's easy because you can't move around when you have a fake background. It's nicer if you can to have something that's there.

Allison: 29:53

When you met your agent, and you have a tremendous agent, Sam Hyatt at the Rights Factory, we love him. He's such a storyteller, and an advocate, and a visionary. But most agents are you know, run the gamut, just like a realtor could really help you envision what your house could be. And some realtors want to show up and say, okay, let me know when it's ready. And I'll put a sign out front. Agents come in all types. Sam is one who is really sees where you can go. He's tremendous, right?

Jessica: 30:29

And Sam is the president of the Rights Factory and my agent is actually Stacy Kondle at the Rights factory.

Allison: 30:34

Oh, okay.

Jessica: 30:34

I think something that you're pointing to is some agencies are better than others at working together. Like teamwork and mentorship, and yeah, taking a team approach. And so, yeah, that's one of the things I really appreciate about Sam, even though he's not my agent, he showed up to my event in New York. So, yeah, it's nice to know that there's a team that's got you.

Allison: 30:53

Okay. Let me ask that again then cause this whole time I thought Sam was your agent. I know now that you're saying, Stacy, it's not. So, let's talk about agents for a second because people, when they're looking for an agent, I think sometimes they think that they're looking for a love match. Like a bestie they're going to go on vacation with. And if that's your match, super great. But most agents keep in mind, they only get paid when you get paid 100 percent commission. They are salespeople. And if you happen to match with an agent who can offer partnership or suggestion on how you could build your brand, super. But usually they're not stepping in as your marketing manager. P. S. that's my job. Your agent, Stacy Kamla is part of a larger agency that has a different way of going about things. The rights agents, the rights factory. Could you talk about your relationship and what you've observed there? What people can expect from this type of agent?

Jessica: 32:03

Yeah. Well, Stacy was a really great agent for me like in terms of being easy to work with. And she sold my book right away. And the Rights Factory, they have a good sort of teamwork approach. The president of the Rights Factory, Sam Hyatt, who I know, you know him, Allison. But you know, I think he sent the submission list to him. He reviewed it, said, make sure you don't leave off this person, whatever, like that sort of thing. And so, they take a team approach, which is really nice. And then, Sam came to my event in New York because he's there half the time. And it's nice to know that you're represented by the agency, not just the agent. And also, I do think having a good vibe with a person and trusting them and liking them. Like in working with them, that's important. But as long as the person's professional and can do their job, and as long as you can get the emotional support and care that you need from somewhere it doesn't have to be the agent relationship. And I wouldn't expect that because I think most agents do not have time. Like my agent has a lot of clients. And so, I feel like, I'm important to her, but I don't call her like all the time and ask for advice on trivial things. It's like when something big happens, I can go to her. And that's one of the things is like a tabloid story falsely reported something about me. And it was a big whirlwind of stress and I got on the phone with. Yeah, shock. And the other thing I guess I would love for people to know that was very surprising. It was surprising to me that this happened because I'm like, who cares about like, you know, me or my story. In a way that you want to disparage it or put out false things about it. But you don't have to take every media opportunity that comes around because if a tabloid happens to notice you, you will get circled by bottom feeders for a period of time. You don't have to talk to someone just because they have a big outlet or a lot of people. You can always have the choice to say no. And so, I felt very backed up by my agent and publisher when that happened to, when it wasn't a good opportunity. And yeah, I guess that might be one of the things. Like even a new question that you could ask when you're going in to talk to them is like, how do you view? Like, is all publicity good? You could ask a question like, is all publicity good? And see, how they answer that question and see if that aligns with what you think about it.

Allison: 34:10

Yeah. There are such strange things that can happen, and several of them have happened to you. The other strange thing is the day your book launched, there were copycat books? Up for sale on retailer sites. One that said, biography of Jessica Waite, author of The Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards.

Jessica: 34:34

There was like, fake title, like copycat titles, copycat books, like made by AI going up on online retailers. I know, so strange. And then, someone copied and cloned my sub stack and put it up on Goodreads as though I had a blog on Goodreads. Not to scare everyone, but I think AI is making it so fast and inexpensive for people to do weird things that there's all these other little nibbly. I don't know, I think about those little fish that people use for a spot. They're little nibbly, nibbly things like writing a book isn't hard enough. But it's good to be aware of that stuff is out there just to keep an eye. It's not vain to like Google yourself once in a while and see what's going on cause there might be some things to manage.

Allison: 35:16

Right. And that is a perfectly reasonable call or email to your agent and your publisher. That's their of this is happening. Here's a link. Please get these removed. That's something that they can manage. Usually though, an agent is just like a realtor. They sell your house, but they're not coming over to your house to help you paint the kitchen. So, they do have a scope of work. And if you're thinking, what should I do now? Or do you think I should offer courses or something. They might be someone that you bounce things off of. But usually, my clients come back to me and say, I have a half an hour with my agent. I want to make sure I get what I need from her. And then, Allison, you and I will do everything else. Great. That's good. Here's something that only your agent can tell you. And if you have a half an hour with her, you want straight answers about these couple things that you wouldn't be able to know. Like no author has access to book scan, their numbers of how many copies of your book entirely have sold. And oftentimes, they don't even tell you, how many copies of your book were printed. So that you know, like, did they print 2, 500 copies or 75, 000 copies? It'd be good to know. And you don't know. And you can tell from Amazon how many copies have sold. When you go into Author Central, how many copies have sold on Amazon? But it doesn't include everything or any other retailer site. So, you do have to get that from either your publisher or your agent, if your agency is big enough to have a book scan license. Which is like having a Nielsen license. So, it's very expensive and you have to be an agency or a publisher to have that. Those are great reasons to incorporate a conversation with your agent. But if you hadn't reached out to them, those copycats would still be up and you're going to have to keep watching. Because they pop back up. They go down. They pop back up. They're like crabgrass. Sorry. It's true.

Jessica: 37:30

But I want to say one other thing not to toot my own horn. But one other very anomalous thing happened with my book, which was that it actually hit a best seller list almost two weeks before it went on sale. Because when the pre orders got like into the warehouse, they started shipping them out. And they get counted as a sale when they leave the warehouse. And so, suddenly, yeah, two weeks before it was on sale, it was on the bestseller list and people were starting to read it. And it was so great. And I really attribute a lot of that to like the work that we did to try to build some pre sale interest. And also it was a little bit shocking and scary that I wasn't emotionally ready cause I was all geared up for this one day. And then, something happened like before that. And I was like, Oh no. So, it's really funny. Like you just can't anticipate what the ups and downs are going to be and how it's going to go, but it's really nice to have people to celebrate wins with and to call on when things are not going well, or you're feeling a bit scared or anxious or down on yourself, whatever. So, having good, trusted people in your corner, I can't say enough about how important that is. So, thanks for being one of those, Allison.

Allison: 38:40

I'm on your team. I'm on your team. Now's the time when we talk about a book you love. What book do you love right now that you think people should be reading?

Jessica: 38:49

I'm reading a book that's a little bit outside of my usual, but I'm loving. It's called Takedown by Allie Bryan. And it's a story of a young, like a high school wrestler, it's a YA book, actually. Whose dad is needs a really expensive medical treatment that might save him. And so, she ends up deciding secretly to go in a cage fight, like a MMA sort of thing to earn money. I know. I'm super peaceful. It's Takedown by Allie Bryan. What I love about it is just like, how much heart this person is and how much we never see scrappy young women fighting. Do you know what I mean? It's I think Katniss Everdeen, like that sort of type of like figHt.. It's like not so common. And so, anyway, I'm really enjoying Takedown by Allie Ryan, a YA book about a girl fighter.

Allison: 39:36

Thank you. I can't wait to get that. I bet my daughter will love that too. She has a hard time choosing from between all the options in the bookstore. And then, she'll say, I don't see anything. You just looked at every book. Choose one.

Jessica: 39:50

That is one of the hard things. Like I love a bookstore, but sometimes there's like decision overwhelm. So, it's nice to have recommendations for sure.

Allison: 39:58

Jessica, where can people find you?

Jessica: 40:01

Yeah, I have a website. It's currently under renovation, but it's JessicaWaite, W A I T E dot work, W O R K. And so, that's where my main home base is. And if they haven't found my book yet, it's coming out in paperback in a few months in the new year.

Allison: 40:17

Hooray. And before we call this podcast complete, what's one thing you want people to know?

Jessica: 40:24

I think that there's a lot about this that can be fun. And so, to try to find the things that you can do about it that light you up, and use those as your guidepost.

Allison: 40:34

Awesome. Thank you so much. We're going to put every resource, every book, every person that we mentioned today in the show notes. So that when people pour through and they say, what was that book again? Just go to the show notes. It's there. And also links to Jessica, and your socials. And even the coverage in Chatelaine Magazine and the Toronto Star. Gosh, so much good stuff. And I'm so happy for you. Thank you for being here.

Jessica: 41:07

Thanks, Allison.