Caregiving, Loss, and Writing: with Jessica Fein | Ep. 38

Have you ever wondered how to find hope and light in the midst of profound loss?

Allison Lane sits down with Jessica Fein—author of Breathtaking: A Memoir of Family Dreams and Broken Genes, TEDx speaker, Psychology Today columnist, and podcast host of I Don’t Know How You Do It. Jessica shares her deeply personal story of caregiving for her daughter, Dahlia, while navigating immense grief, and how writing became her outlet for connection, healing, and hope.

Jessica’s journey highlights resilience, humor, and the power of storytelling. Whether you're an author, caregiver, or seeking inspiration, this episode offers wisdom and practical tools to fuel your creative dreams.

What You’ll Learn:

• How Jessica turned caregiving into a story that resonates universally.
• Why humor and joy are essential tools in the face of grief.
• The ripple effect of sharing your story and connecting with readers.
• Practical tips for authors: querying agents, building a platform, and navigating publishing.
• Why every writer (yes, you!) deserves to embrace their story with “Why not me?”

Resources Mentioned:

• Jessica Fein’s Website: https://www.jessicafeinstories.com/
• Jessica Fein’s Book: Breathtaking: A Memoir of Family, Dreams, and Broken Genes https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781681151106 
• Jessica’s Blog on Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/grace-in-grief 
• Jessica’s TED Talk on Grief Literacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaQkyLnAaw 
• Jessica Fein’s Podcast “I Don’t Know How You Do It” https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-dont-know-how-you-do-it/id1668168226 
• Allison Lane’s Compassionate Critique Events:

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 No matter how you're publishing, you need to launch your book like a pro. Join me 7-week guided program: Bestseller Launch School. Live trainings start April 30. Grab your seat NOW!  https://lanelit.com/bestseller  

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Transcript

Jessica Fein: 1:34

As my life has become more complicated and more loss has been part of it. I have kind of paradoxically become more committed to finding and creating moments of joy and lightness and laughter and beauty.

Allison: 2:14

Welcome to the Author's Edge, marketing for authors. In this podcast, we are giving you the opportunity, the inspiration, and the tools to be the author you know you're meant to be. Whether you're a seasoned author or you're just picking up that pencil, we have information and we've got stuff for you. Plus, so many freebies, so many opportunities. Today, I'm so thrilled and honored to welcome someone truly special. Jessica Fein is not just an incredible author and an advocate, but she's also a client who I've had the privilege of working with for a few years now. And that's how our friendship developed. We started working together in the beginning on her book proposal, which was already drafted, but you know, my special brand of polish is what she was looking for. Thank heavens to pitching agents and building her platform. So, I've really been able to be a cheerleader and an audience member and a team member along the way and a resource, obviously. And writing her book description. That was amazing. But what you're going to hear today, just a reminder, because I do these intros after the fact. What you're going to hear today is how this all unfolded for her. And the ripple effect that she gets to have now and the benefit to readers and our understanding of our human experience. At a recent book launch event, Jessica's book sold out in 17 minutes. And this was a big retailer. And 17 minutes into a two hour book signing. This is evidence that her story is her own, but the promise, the theme of her book is universal. If you don't know, Jessica Fein is the author of Breathtaking, a memoir of family dreams and broken genes. Having lost her parents, her sisters, and her teenage daughter, she is a reluctant expert in grief. You can check out her psychology today blog. I will put it in the show notes. You can check out her podcast. I don't know how you do it. I will put it in the show notes. You can also watch her TED talk about grief literacy. I will put that in the show notes. Okay. Enough, the creds and accolades and applause for me. Let's hop in and talk to Jessica. Let's welcome onto the show, Jessica Fein. Welcome, Jessica Fein. I'm so glad you're here. Oh, my God..

Jessica Fein: 5:19

I'm so glad to be here. Thank you.

Allison: 5:22

We are friends in real life. But I'm glad that we're talking today because people never talk about what's going on with them behind the scenes. It's the,'hi how are you doing? Oh, I'm fine,' kind of cursory thing that keeps us from really connecting. But your memoir,'Breathtaking,' which is behind you and it's behind me. Breathtaking, a memoir of family dreams and broken genes by Jessica Fein is deeply personal and powerful. Emotionally, what inspired you to take the leap and share your family's story with the world? Well, first of all, let me say that what you described in terms of the,'hi, how are you, Fein?. I loathe small talk. In fact, I talk about things that we write. I once wrote a whole piece about all of the things we say in passing like, what's up? Nothing much, what's up with you? You know. How you doing? Great. How you doing? It's all just, it's noise. It's noise pollution. And A, I'm not comfortable in it, that whole small talk kind of thing. And B, I'm not really very interested in it. So, what prompted me to tell this story really happened pretty much right when Dahlia was diagnosed. So, first of all, I enjoy writing. So, it was something I had done before I was a columnist way back when I had been a professional writer before all of this happened. And when I say all of this, I mean, just the few little things I described in the book. So, that is a natural you know some people might go work out when they're dealing with things. Sometimes I wish I was one of those people, but that is not me. Some people, you know, people have different ways and things that they're drawn to. So, for me, writing did come as a natural outlet. And the first article that I wrote actually having to do with Dahlia, my daughter, was right after her diagnosis. And I actually, kind of in a moment of, why not, I've got nothing to lose, sent it directly to Ariana Huffington. And she responded to me in six minutes. And next thing I know, it's on the front page, so we call it, of what was then Huffington Post. And it had a tremendous response. And that was very gratifying for me because I was dealing with something that was so heavy and life altering. And putting out there into the world and seeing and feeling the response, felt good to me. Wait, because your story is, and your message isn't woe is me. This is heartbreaking and hopeful. Your perspective on the world is like, we're going to enjoy this sliver of a moment and know that the moments aren't promised. So, can you talk about how you wove humor and lightness and how you continue to do that in such a personal, in what could have been a wrenching book to read without that sparkle, you know, that dazzle? Yes, and sparkles are one of my favorite words, so thank you for putting that in there. Well, it's Dahlia's

Jessica Fein: 8:48

It's Dahlia personified sparkle. But you know, the whole thing that we're talking about, about being hopeful and instilling joy and not being morose in the most morose of circumstances is something that, as my life has become more complicated and more loss has been part of it. I have kind of paradoxically become more committed to finding and creating moments of joy and lightness and laughter and beauty. So, first of all, just to put it out there. I have never been the one to cry on the bathroom floor. Like, I literally don't think I've ever in my life cried on the bathroom floor. So, a book was going to be about, and then the next day I was crying on the bathroom floor, and here I am still on the bathroom floor. First of all, I don't have time to be on the bathroom floor. But second of all, that's just not who I am. In fact, I worried a little bit when I first wrote this that editors or early readers would say, we don't feel your sorrow enough. We want to see you on the bathroom floor. Right? And I think I even maybe said, you know, had to address that in the book. Like, I'm not doing that. Now that's not to say, I wasn't then, and am not now. Absolutely, gutted and devastated. Nobody loses their child, their sisters, their parents, and isn't gutted and devastated. But because I intend to be gutted and devastated every single day for the rest of my life, I also have figured out, or am working on, and you know, feeling the other things that their memories bring to me, the joy, the happiness, all that stuff. And really, that began following Dahlia's model all those years, living with this insidious degenerative disease. And still trying to, you know, have a childhood. So, in any event, the book, to your question, how do I weave those two things together? I think not deliberately, not okay. Now, we need a breather, time to be funny. It's not that. It's just trying to really use my authentic voice. And I think throughout everything that we, my husband and I, my family, have gone through, we've always kept humor as a part of it. I mean, God, there's stuff to laugh about, even in some pretty dark circumstances.

Allison: 11:15

Right. And having known you and early drafts of the manuscript. And even before when we met, which I'm so grateful for. And putting your proposal together, and trying to position this as it's not all doom and gloom because life has to be helpful.

Jessica Fein: 11:39

Right. And also because I don't know, I wouldn't want to pick up a book that was going to be all doom and gloom. Like, there's enough doom and gloom.

Allison: 11:45

Right.

Jessica Fein: 11:45

It's more interesting to me to see how do we live in a world that has a decent amount of doom and gloom that is out of our control. How do we Live in that world with these other things we're talking about the you know, finding, meaning creating beauty, those things. That's more interesting. And that's the universal nature of it, right? mean, nobody reading this book is gonna have had a child with Dahlia's diagnosis. I mean, good God, there are only six people in the world with Dahlia's dual diagnosis. And I don't think those parents are my readers because that would be a pretty small readership, a small audience.

Allison: 12:21

And they're as busy as you were.

Jessica Fein: 12:23

Exactly. Well, you know, I think that what was interesting and what was pretty apparent to me early on was that we were living through something that was utterly unique, and utterly universal.

Allison: 12:39

I think that's what when you queried, did a round of querying agents that first time. And you got some nice notes, but it was like, I'm not seeing your platform or whatever. We had to address that opportunity to establish a digital presence and you started pitching because you know, you had been contributing to the Huffington Post. But one media outlet isn't enough. And remember, we were talking about building your byline basket. We

Jessica Fein: 13:14

Buy Lime basket such An Allison Lane term, I love it.

Allison: 13:17

Well, and people have to ask me all the time, what is that? Like, it's your basket of eggs. They're all different colors, right? We want a little variety. You can't be the Huffington Post woman. We want you to be more, available and visible because our job is to boost your discoverability so that your book is more discoverable. And that's what publishers want. And then, when we did that and you went away and pitched and I think it was a couple of weeks later, you're like, Hey, I got a yes. And I got another yes. I'm like, Oh, it's on now.

Jessica Fein: 13:55

on baby. I mean, I think Another thing that we did deal with is, it was COVID. And, You know, at face value, there's no way to escape the fact that this is a tragic story. Period. And you know, a lot of the feedback was you know, kind and lovely about the writing. But like, we're looking for comedy, we're looking for upbeat, we're looking for escape, we're not looking for terminally ill child. that was another thing that we contended with.

Allison: 14:24

Yeah. But when we went back out, and you queried. And you got that letter back from your now agent, Michelle Martin, can you talk about that a

Jessica Fein: 14:37

Yes, yes, I can. I remember by my favorite line by Hart, which said, after reading my proposal, I feel like I've both fallen to the ground and been lifted to the stars. And I was like, okay, she's my agent because anybody responded to the work that way was going to believe in it, and make it happen. And so, that really moved me. Plus she got back to me. I know. I don't think it was a day, right?

Allison: 15:51

No. And this is a lesson for you listener who's thinking like, well, I've sent 68 queries. And query, for those who don't know, is literary jargon for a pitch letter. It's a cover letter for a resume is the same as a pitch letter. So, a query letter is how you pitch agents or publishers for your book. But agents know what they're looking for. They're all just like you skim your junk mail before you really go through, you're like, Oh, I'm looking for the, your query popped. And Michelle now represents I think four of my clients because she knows what she's looking for.

Jessica Fein: 16:33

Yes. Though, I will add to that. I mean, everything you say is obviously, you know, so true and gospel. But I also know that if you were to go to her website, it said, I don't represent memoirs. And my publishers had not done memoirs. So, even though you want to go for the person who's looking for what you have to offer, I don't know, I guess I think it's all about connecting, getting that reader, whether that's the person whose job it is to read the slush pile or the top person in the agency, feels moved by what you've written.

Allison: 17:03

Yeah. Now, Michelle, when she sent you that love letter and that, I love that you memorized that line from that letter. And then, you went out on submission and you ended up getting two offers. And then, I think your publisher sent you a letter as well. Is that right?

Jessica Fein: 17:25

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Allison: 17:27

Is everyone sending you love letters now? I'm going to put pen to paper.

Jessica Fein: 17:31

I'm open to receiving more. If anybody listening would like to send me love letter, please do so. I'm sure my contact will be in the notes for the show. Love letters are a good thing. I got to tell you, I got a love letter the other day from a reader. And I'm still thinking about it because it is a father, not somebody I know, nobody in common. A father whose child has a rare disease. And he said he is parenting differently, having read my story.

Allison: 17:58

Oh, wow.

Jessica Fein: 17:59

And of course, anything like that, I always just credit to Dahlia because I mean, I was the parent Dahlia created. I was who I was because of her. But I thought, isn't that what we're all doing? You know, if you get one reader who it impacts that way.

Allison: 18:13

Wait, well, it's such a gift to hear from readers.

Jessica Fein: 18:17

It's such a gift. And you know, it's so interesting because as an voracious reader, before I had written this years before. There were times when I wrote to authors, especially now, you know, it's so easy to find authors information to tell them how much their work meant to me. And once in a while, I'd hear something back. But now being on the other end of it, oh my god, it means so much to me. I mean, sometimes I'd be like, why am I even doing that? Are they even going to read this? You know. Because it's so solitary. The writing piece of it is so solitary. And then, you go through the whole busy process. And then, the reading part is solitary and being able to bring those two ends together is so gorgeous, I think.

Allison: 18:59

Yes. Even podcasting is so low. I'm in the basement. I mean, I do

Jessica Fein: 19:05

And I'm in the loft,

Allison: 19:06

So

Jessica Fein: 19:06

between us.

Allison: 19:07

right. We're sandwiching life. And sometimes, you know, I'll get a DM from someone I've never heard of saying, I heard this, you revealed this. I understand my opportunity better. Or when I've been on a podcast, I can't believe you just laid out all your traumas. Like, well, I'm a book coach! If I can't, if I'm all shiny and nothing's ever happened to me, how am I going to make someone who has a story to tell feel comfortable if the whole time I'm clutching my pearls? You

Jessica Fein: 19:43

It's

Allison: 19:44

cannot shock me.

Jessica Fein: 19:46

Right.

Allison: 19:47

What happened to you didn't happen to me, but I have my own bag. Although, I look very shiny and unblemished.

Jessica Fein: 19:56

Listen, I was so grateful the first time you opened up in that way to me because that's where we can actually have a true connection, right? I mean, I'm not really even comfortable around people who are just all shiny, happy, like that's not interesting.

Allison: 20:10

It's so interesting, I don't feel comfortable

Jessica Fein: 20:13

No.

Allison: 20:14

When people don't reveal what they're going through or if they haven't even addressed it.

Jessica Fein: 20:23

And also because we feel like, well, maybe they're silently judging, right? People who haven't gone through it. My sister was going through some personal challenges would have been hers to share. So, I'm not going to get into them here but she loved meeting other parents who would talk about the challenges they were going through that might have tangentially related to hers. And like, the bigger the challenge, the better. She was like, now we can be friends, right? Because you feel like, somtimes other people who haven't gone through stuff are judgy.

Allison: 20:55

Right. And they have really nothing to contribute to you because people think they empathize, but they can't.

Jessica Fein: 21:01

I was just going to say that It's sympathy versus empathy.

Allison: 21:04

Yeah. They really haven't stepped in that mess before. And I like to own my mess.

Jessica Fein: 21:11

Yes, you do.

Allison: 21:12

it's all out here. But your narrative, the way you write, even that piece that you did that was about how you tried to be a runner, but then you decided to be a walker. I was like, Oh my God. First of all, I would never even try to be a runner cause I pee a little bit every time I'd run, you know. Thank you, both kids who were ginormous. And if you're a pelvic floor coach, please do not DM me. I'm not going to do any of those exercises. It's fine. I'll just be a little, I don't have to run. But your narrative feels so vivid and intimate. And you're writing about anecdotes and stories and lived experiences that happened a decade ago. Can you talk about your process for revisiting those moments and then crafting those memories into even the articles you write for psychology today, they're so rich. In story, it feels like yesterday.

Jessica Fein: 22:18

Well, thank you, first of all. One thing that I am starting to get better at, but it's still hard for me is revision. So, I think this comes from the fact that I was and am most comfortable with the essay format. And that I just, I write essays quickly and I try to kind of perfect each sentence or each paragraph before moving on. And with the book, it was so different. I really had to learn about getting that shitty first draft down, going back, going back, going back. So, that's one thing, but that's not exactly your question, which was about the storytelling. But to answer the question, I like reading people's stories. I mean, that's how we're going to bring it to life, right? It's one thing if I say, I always thought it would be cool to be a runner. It's another thing if I say, there's something that feels so Cape Cod ish about putting on, you know, my Lululemons and saying, I've just gone for a run or whatever. Just I mean, the look, it's the details. And just imagining yourself back in that moment and feeling like what do I want to convey here? And we know that story is the best way to draw the reader in.

Allison: 23:33

When you handed in your manuscript, I think you were in the short rows of like final nitty things before you handed it in to your publisher, which is Berman House Press. And then, we were talking as we did lots when I was in my driveway in the morning,

Jessica Fein: 23:52

or, or in The, you know, on the field.

Allison: 23:55

Right.

Jessica Fein: 23:55

One of

Allison: 23:56

on.

Jessica Fein: 23:56

Sports things.

Allison: 23:57

Yes, I'm a soccer mom now, lacrosse mom slash basketball mom. So I'm, I'm the sportsy. But I don't do any of the sports, so I don't get any of the exercise. But you called and said, I think I'm going to start a podcast since I have some extra time. And I was thinking, what? What extra time you're still working full time.

Jessica Fein: 24:20

Yeah. I mean, I was working full time during the entire writing of this book, to be clear, not only was I working full time, but I was more than a full time, intense medical caregiver also. And I do strongly believe that the busiest people are the most productive.

Allison: 24:35

Right. And just to be clear, Dahlia was an eyes on, tell me the exact, it's a terminology.

Jessica Fein: 24:42

Sure. From age nine until she died one week after her 17th birthday, she was what's called an eyes on patient. She had a tracheostomy, which for people who don't know is when you have a little hole in your neck and a tube, and that becomes your breathing mechanism. And that was attached through more tubing to a ventilator. And that's how she breathed. Now, in Dahlia's case, that meant she was eyes on, which is my husband, myself, or a nurse trained specifically in her care needed to have our eyes on her 24 7. So, to be clear, that's like, I'm not like, Oh, okay, honey, I'm going to the bathroom. I'll be right back. No. 24 7, we are eyes on Dahlia, on her machines. And it was living on the precipice. I mean, it was life and death really that liminal space almost for eight years.

Allison: 25:35

Wow. Okay. So, you wrote all this book. You signed with Michelle, and then I think 2022, you must have handed in your manuscript. And then, I think I'll start a podcast.

Jessica Fein: 25:52

Yeah.

Allison: 25:53

Where you hit on this nugget that people say to you all the time. And it came up while you were putting together the manuscript because it was so frustrating to hear, I don't know how you do it.

Jessica Fein: 26:08

I don't know how you do it. Literally, literally. There was not a day that went by where somebody didn't say that to me. And it's just one of those things people say, and you know, I've said it too, to other people. But there's no way for the person on the receiving end to respond to that. No way. Like, what choice do I have? Or you do it too, or it's not so bad, or it's worse than you think. Like, none of those mean anything, right? There's no way to respond. There just isn't. And yet, we all have people we look at. There are people I look at where we're like, I don't know how they do that, right? And so, I really wanted to have conversations, and that is the through line for my show where every guest on my show is somebody who for one reason or another often hears, I don't know how you do it. But to your point, if I had handed in the manuscript and I was like, Oh, what am I going to do now? Right? Because I love being engaged in an intense, creative endeavor. And so, I felt like this would be a great thing to be doing during that interminable process of the back and forth and the waiting that happens when you're in the traditionally published world, right? You hand in your manuscript and they're like, great, your book will be out in like, what, 18, 24 months?

Allison: 27:18

Right? And then it's crickets.

Jessica Fein: 27:20

And Then, it's crickets. So, I was like, Oh my God. So, I mean, yes, I was pitching and placing and that kind of thing, but I wanted to try something new. And so, I taught myself how to do the podcast and I didn't realize I would love it as much as I did, you know, because I love having conversations with people. And even the like intricate audio editing and that kind of stuff was almost therapeutic for me at that time. Because that was right after Dahlia died. I mean, people who are listening, the book was agented and sold when Dahlia was still alive. This was never a book about, and it's not, Dahlia's death. This is a book about Dahlia's life. And I did go in and put the epilogue in, but that was not part of the original manuscript. That hadn't happened. And so, then I suddenly, you know, had some time, and that's when I decided to do the podcast, but I loved all the different pieces involved, you know. I had been for 26 years and heading up a brand and content team in a marketing department for a huge global organization. So, this allowed me to use some of those skills and to do the conversations. And plus, I mean, I always wanted to, you know, be Oprah. So, this gave me an opportunity. Really, when I was young, I wanted to be Diane Sawyer. My family used to get together, we'd watch 60 Minutes every night with Chinese food. And I wanted to be Diane Sawyer when I grew up. I still do.

Allison: 28:41

Well, who wouldn't? So, how has hosting shaped your understanding of resilience and grace?

Jessica Fein: 28:51

There's a lot of it out there, I will say that. Now, obviously, it's a self selected group of people who come on the show, right? The people who are spending their lives on the bathroom floor are not my guests. But I have definitely, been able to synthesize certain themes that allow people to thrive in what might seem to be unimaginable circumstances. Right? And so, that's what's so interesting to me. I think I now have interviewed 90 people. And when we look at what do they have in common, even though their stories are all so different. There are definitely themes that have emerged. And I will say, not all of my guests have been through huge trauma. Some of them have just chosen really unconventional paths. That's interesting too, when you think about resilience, to take your life in a direction that's so different from the quote unquote norm. So, you know, number one is connections, community. I mean, over and over and over again, people say that in different ways, but that's what it boils down to. It's amazing, the power of community. But there are so many other threads that have come up and you know, that's probably a whole other, a whole other show.

Allison: 30:05

No, no, no. This is so important because the authors and the aspiring authors that are out there, they are in like, freeze mode. They feel alone. And I know you listening in your car or while you're folding laundry, which I also do. You're not idling. You want to move forward, but you don't feel like you feel pulled, but you also feel like, what are you going to say to the person next door who says, Oh, I didn't know you do that. But what you internalize is who are you to do that? That's different, right? So, we're speaking to the person who feels frozen and like they've been stunned into inaction. And they want to know, I want to expand to, I want to do the big thing too. I want to write about my trauma, or my joy, or my experience. How do I move that? So, I do want to talk about the themes or what you see is the connective

Jessica Fein: 31:17

Yeah. And I think there are really two things here, right? That we're talking about. One is the resilience. What are the themes for people who are on the receiving end of I don't know how you do it? And then, number two, this whole, who am I to? Right. So, dealing with the former, which is these themes, you know, number one is community. Number two is having something that you are involved in, that is just for you. So many people that I talk to are intensely caregiving, or intensely grieving, or intensely running a huge business, whatever they're doing, right? They have these roles that define them, that are the things that people say, I don't know how you do it. But maintaining something, doing something that is just for you is really, really critical for people to not get lost in the vastness of whatever it is they're dealing with. And that can be really different kinds of things. I mean, I have one woman I interviewed who said that she took up violin. But going every week to her violin practice, you know, where she felt like this is just for me, that that was so valuable for her. Right. And I think when we talk about caregiving, which is now such a huge theme in our country. And you know, people in the sandwich generation, they're caring for their young children, they're caring for their elders, they're caring for their spouses. You know, having something that gives you your identity, that allows you to remember who you were before. And as I felt, allowed me to remember who I would be after. And so, for me, You know, writing throughout was definitely one of those things. My husband brews beer and is building a canoe in the garage. You know?

Allison: 33:09

He is the sweetest.

Jessica Fein: 33:11

But you know, it's different. What's gonna give you that feeling of independence and allow you to maintain your identity. I think another big thing is really this appreciation that many different things can coexist. That you can be in a situation that seems like, and in fact is, the worst thing that somebody could possibly be going through. And you have joy, and you can smile, and you can laugh. And it's not only okay, but it's so important, right? And so, being able to appreciates that all these things do dance together and do become stronger because of the other, and not to feel guilty. I mean, we do such a number on ourselves, right? Like, Oh my God, did I just laugh? How can I laugh when over here such and such is happening? No, you gotta laugh, right? So it's understanding that we can have all of these emotions simultaneously. So, there are a lot of different things, I mean, there's faith or spirituality. I mean, sometimes it's religious. Sometimes it's hitting the yoga mat. That's not for me. But you know, that's another thing that really has emerged.

Allison: 34:18

You said something that reminds me of, I was talking to Meghan Jarvis. Who is a big fan of yours.

Jessica Fein: 34:27

A Big fan of yours too, so.

Allison: 34:29

Meghan Jarvis wrote the'end of the hour' and'can you tell me.' And her podcast episode is coming up. And I will link to it in the show notes. It's either number 36 or 34, but I will link to it. What she said is that you have to find what works for you and you have to try things. And if it doesn't work, like hot yoga is not for you. Great. Don't try it again. You don't have to force something that's not for you in the same way. You don't have to write the way you think the memoir that you love is written. You write the way that you want to.

Jessica Fein: 35:12

Yeah, I know. And that's a tough one. But it is a tough one because a lot of people you and I both know in common who are such great gorgeous writers. And sometimes I'll be listening to their work or reading their work, either one. And I'm like, Oh, who am I to think that I'm a writer? Look at this part. You know what I mean? I think that there's just, we all struggle with that a little bit. And my husband will tell me, well, look, it's like not even the same genre. You know, you have a jazz musician and you have a hip hop, right? So, you can't compare, but it's hard because you read these people with such admiration. And I do think there is something about writing that we hesitate to fully claim it. I mean, I have published two books, well over 100 essays. And also had a career being paid to write and corporate. And I still don't feel like I can say, I'm a writer. You know, it still makes me like, I don't know. a weird thing.

Allison: 36:09

Right. And we both have corporate backgrounds. When I was leading PR and marketing communications, I never felt comfortable calling myself a writer. Even though I wrote every day, I wrote websites and speeches and interviews.

Jessica Fein: 36:25

It's so weird.

Allison: 36:26

I mean, everything and op eds, of course, for someone else, because.

Jessica Fein: 36:32

And I don't think like that accountants are like, I don't really want to say, I'm an accountant. Like, I don't think they feel like they can own that or like, you know, whatever. But for some reason, and I wonder if it's because we do have other people we look at and we say, well, that's a writer. Maybe feeling like claiming it and saying I'm a writer means we're putting ourselves in the same category of people we admire so much that we feel like, how could we? I don't know. It's an.

Allison: 36:57

Yeah.

Jessica Fein: 36:57

Interesting thing.

Allison: 36:58

I think if you're just picking up a pencil, you're a writer. Because you are writing and you're looking at someone who picked up their pencil a year ago. And you picked up yours today.

Jessica Fein: 37:14

Right.

Allison: 37:14

You're both writers. And if you need to hear that or hear me yell that at you, then come to one of the Compassionate Critique, the free monthly events that I hold. And I will take you by the digital shoulders and shake you until you say, I am a writer, I am a writer. I'll put that in the show notes. It's a free monthly get together. I host.

Jessica Fein: 37:36

Oh, my God, it's great. I can't recommend it enough. In fact, I've gone a couple of times with drafts of things that I am working on. And you know, just really got great feedback and get off and you pitch in place.

Allison: 37:49

That makes me happy.

Jessica Fein: 37:51

Oh, there so much wisdom. I mean, yeah.

Allison: 37:53

There's so much wisdom in community.

Jessica Fein: 37:55

In community, but also in Allison Lane.

Allison: 37:59

Well, thanks. Oh, I just giggled like a little tiny girl. But to your point in community, you can get through hard things when you have community.

Jessica Fein: 38:09

Yes.

Allison: 38:10

When you're feeling like shaky, you turn to someone and say, I'm thinking of doing this. Do you think that's a thing? Yeah. I postponed and delayed starting my podcast for two years. Because the technology scared me. I would get, my chest would clench up. And finally, my client, now friend, Tracy Otsuka was like, Allison, you know, she talks like that. What is it that's bothering you? And I was like, Oh, technology. I'm scared. No, let's break it down. Number one, you have to do that. I was like, Oh my gosh, she said, clear your calendar today and tomorrow. And I want you to Voxer me. And if you don't have Voxer, it's a free app. That's like a walkie talkie and it's free and free is good. Good and free is good, and so I like Voxer. And two days later, I had established my podcast. And she gave me some shortcuts because I don't want to have to become an expert in all the platforms. She said, you can use Buzzsprout or you can use whatever the other one is. And she said, I use whatever the other one is, but I was really thinking of moving to Buzzsprout. So, maybe just go with that one. I'm like, great. I don't even need to look. You just saved me a week of time.

Jessica Fein: 39:33

That's how I feel about getting a car, which I loathe the idea of have being a position where I need to get a car. And I would just so much rather call the person who's done all the research. Yeah. And take what car should I get? Just tell me exactly what car, and I'll go get it. I don't need to try 17 different cars.

Allison: 39:49

Yes. That is how I feel about jeans as well. If anyone has a mom bod and it has super short legs, please DM me and tell me what jeans you're getting.

Jessica Fein: 40:00

Okay, so our support floor Therapists are not supposed to DM. you, but the Mom Mom Jean Pods.

Allison: 40:05

I would love you know, some sort of stylist to be like, I understand where you are. A couple more questions. What's a book you love right now?

Jessica Fein: 40:14

Oh my god, the wedding people. I love this so much. What are we here, we're on the beginning of January. I've read three books this month. But I loved the wedding people. I just got back from Guatemala, and I read it on the plane, and it's just fun. I really, really loved that book. I'm reading also right now the sequel, which is the follow up, of course, to the plot. So, if anybody, which most, a lot of people have read the plot, the sequel, it's always fun to have a sequel to the book that you enjoyed. And then, I read, oh, Gila Pfeffer's book, because she is on my podcast. And Gila Pfeffer's book, which I just finished because she's going to be on my podcast called Nearly Departed. And that was a great read too. So, those are my three books for the first nine days of January, but I gotta tell you, I love The Wedding People.

Allison: 41:05

Awesome. We will include all of those in the show notes and shout out to Gila because I love her too. Now, before we call this podcast complete, what's one thing that you want to leave people with?

Jessica Fein: 41:19

I want to get back to this idea that we were talking about we touched on of who am I? And what I want to leave people with is, you know, there's another way of saying that, which is why me? And this is something that I feel very strongly about because a lot of people who have been through terrible things say, why me? I don't. Because it's not something that I don't think that the world is meant to be fair. I don't need to look very far. You know, on the internet outside my window to understand life isn't fair. I don't say, why me? But the corollary for that or and the corollary for that is when we look at the other end of the spectrum of fabulous things happening. I don't say, why me either? And I think so many of us question, why me? Who am I to think that I should be able to get a book deal? Who am I to think? Well, who are you not to? Just like who are you not to have the shitty things happen, right? And so, I think this idea of why me, no, why not you? Why not you? Right? And so I would leave people with that. And I, and I literally just told my kid this yesterday. I forget what it was. Ah, we're in the college application mode. And There was something about a specific college. And I said, look, there's only one way you're guaranteed not to get it. The Only way you are guaranteed not to get in is if you don't apply. So, there's a small chance that you're going to get the agent of your dreams or the publisher. Who cares? The only way you're guaranteed not to is if you don't try. Why you? Why not you?

Allison: 42:54

Right. That's fabulous. I want to say something on top of that because everything that you've done, not achieved, the book is, yes, it's a moment. But you didn't have this master plan when you started writing. And what we see today when people meet you is they see author, columnist, you have a psychology today blog, you're contributing essays and pieces everywhere. You're being asked to be a speaker. They see you as you are today, but why not you? And why not just assume a yes? The book is not the end. It's a now what? And allow yourself to expand your expectation and your goals. Dreams, that's not a dream you can't achieve, but a goal is something that's specific. So, allow yourself to have a goal that you can drive toward and then allow it to expand. Jesse, the ripple effect that you are having now reflects all the steps that you took to get here. And we're so thankful. Thank you

Jessica Fein: 44:12

I am

Allison: 44:13

very much.

Jessica Fein: 44:13

Well, I am to thankful for you Allison Lane. And I just want to say anybody who wants you know, the combo of wisdom, getting it done, humor, real friendship and partnership. Check out Allison Lane. Ha! And I just did a little commercial for you.

Allison: 44:29

I know. Well, thanks. I'm going to get that, on a loop and just carry it around on my phone.