Author's Edge: the go-to Marketing podcast in Publishing
Every week on the Author's Edge, you'll get practical tips to make your path to publishing exciting, straightforward, and effective! Allison Lane brings you ACTIONABLE tips she learned through years of marketing big brands and books. Whether you’re a seasoned author or just shaping your big idea, you’ll learn massive takeaways and hands-on advice that grow your visibility, expand your influence, and make a legacy-level impact.
Author's Edge: the go-to Marketing podcast in Publishing
Pricing, Publicity & Productivity: The Author’s Guide to Selling More Books from Miriam Schulman | Ep. 42
“Successful people do what unsuccessful people are unwilling to do.” – Miriam Schulman
Are you struggling to sell your book or grow your audience beyond social media?
In this episode, Allison Lane sits with bestselling author and creative entrepreneur, Miriam Schulman to reveal a powerful 5-part business framework that applies to authors and creatives alike. Learn how to price, promote, and prospect for book sales without relying on traditional marketing tactics.
If you're an author who wants to get published, launch your book successfully, and increase visibility, this conversation is packed with actionable strategies you don’t want to miss!
🎧 Hit play now and start making your book a success!
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- The 5-Part Framework helps authors sell more books without social media burnout.
- Why email marketing beats social media for building an engaged audience and increasing book sales.
- How to confidently promote your book without feeling pushy or overwhelmed.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Miriam Schulman’s Book: Artpreneur - https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781400235148
- Miriam’s Podcast: The Inspiration Place - https://www.schulmanart.com/podcast/
- Get Miriam’s Free Gift: Leave a verified Amazon review for Artpreneur and send a screenshot to miriam@theinspirationplace.net to receive her agent query letter! https://www.schulmanart.com/artpreneur-book-bonuses/
- Follow Miriam on Instagram: @schulmanart
Timestamps:
[00:05:00] – How Miriam Schulman transitioned from artist to bestselling author
[00:14:30] – The biggest mistake authors make in marketing their book
[00:26:00] – Why email marketing is more powerful than social media for book sales
[00:38:00] – How to shift your mindset and start seeing success in book promotion
[00:41:00] – Exclusive f
Your book launch is your chance to build your visibility and grow your audience. In the Bestseller Launch School guided program, I'll show you how to get buzz before your book hits the shelves, master pre-orders and early sales to get attention and keep sales going long after launch day. Live trainings start April 30th - June 11. Grab your seat now: https://lanelit.com/bestseller
No matter how you're publishing, you need to launch your book like a pro. Join me 7-week guided program: Bestseller Launch School. Live trainings start April 30. Grab your seat NOW! https://lanelit.com/bestseller
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Our souls have different aspects. One aspect of our soul is the creative side. Our creative side cares about what and how. We have also a sacred side that cares about who and why. When you're writing your about page, you need to think about who your customer is and why they want what you need. Start from there. It's not the Simon Sinek start with your why, it's start with your customer's why.
Allison:Today, I am so happy to welcome you to the Author's Edge. This podcast is for you so that you can get your work into the world, that your book can become the success you know that it's meant to be. And that your book can actually reach the people that you want to be helping and inspiring and educating. So, if you're new around here. Hi, I'm Allison Lane. I am here to help you market yourself as an author and go bigger and make a bigger impact, or like I say, like a ripple effect, because an impact sounds like it hurts. If you're returning, and can't wait to hear what's new. Let me tell you, today's guest, her podcast is in the top half percent of all podcasts globally. Her bestselling book, Artpreneur, has been out for two years and continues to be on best lists. She is Miriam Schulman. My client and friend, and here is her book, Artpreneur. Without further ado, welcome with me, Miriam Schulman, artist, entrepreneur, author, all around smart woman, whose podcast, The Inspiration Place, makes me smarter every time I listen. Welcome Miriam Schulman. You know, that I feel like I get smarter when I listen to your podcast. So, let's just start with telling people about your podcast. The inspiration place which if you're not listening to it,'shame.' And we're gonna put the link in the show notes So, can you share with us a little bit about what you cover in the Inspiration Place?
Miriam:Sure. So, I've been hosting the Inspiration Place since 2018. So, it's been a good hot minute now. That's like coming up to six years. Did I do the math right?
Allison:think so.
Miriam:No. That's than six. Wait.
Allison:Yeah. I have a journalism degree and you have an engineering degree. So, I kind of think that you are in
Miriam:It was No, it's six years going on seven years.
Allison:Whatever. Since God was a boy, you've been podcasting. Okay. So, talk to me about you focus on so that people can start listening.
Miriam:Okay. The inspiration plays, it's for creative entrepreneurs and it's not strictly for visual artists. I mean, I do coach visual artists. We do talk about visual art a lot, but there's so much that we talk about that applies to any kind of entrepreneur because the same skills that you need to succeed in business is what you need to succeed if you're an artist. And artists don't always get that memo. So, we do talk about that. We talk about mindset a lot. And one of the fun things about my podcast is I love bringing in guests that artists think really aren't for them and say, no, no, no, this really does apply to you. Here's why. And on the podcast, I do define artists very broadly. So.
Allison:your book.
Miriam:And in the book as well. And in the book of Artpreneur. In the book, Arpaneur, that was the, we do the banner, white. Now, in Korean. Okay, so.
Allison:Congratulations. Holy crack.
Miriam:So, my mom wants me to do like a talk at the Fort Lee Library because that's like a little Korean town. But I think it's only available in Korea. I don't think you can get it here in Korean.
Allison:Huh.
Miriam:That's what my agent told me. I don't know.
Allison:I believe, I believe her.
Miriam:I believe her too.
Allison:So, your message is for anyone who wants to sell something that is creative. You're a creative entrepreneur and that's how you and I met when you decided, I'm an artist, I'm an entrepreneur, and now I want to be an author. Can you talk about how you came to that decision? Because Artpreneur, once again, you know, you know, eye candy is a game changer for anyone who wants to build a business. And P. S. that is what you are doing once you are an author. But anyone who wants to build a business or even collect$15 for anything. It's really my go to.
Miriam:Yeah, thank you
Allison:You know, you're the reason why I started a checking account. you had to have a sit down with me.
Miriam:Yes. Uh,
Allison:to make this shift?
Miriam:Okay. So, I was very pregnant with the with the idea of this book I came to you, but I didn't have, no, it's true. And you will agree with that. Like I knew exactly the book I wanted to birth that made things a lot easier. So, I'm struggling a lot with the second book because I'm not quite as pregnant with it as I am with the first book. I like, I knew what the book needed to be. I just didn't know how to structure a book proposal to pitch an agent or get it sold to a traditional publisher. So, that's where Allison came in and she really like, was that doula for me that helped me massage it and massage the book proposal into something that was marketable. And we very quickly, got that book proposal done. Because I was so clear in what it was I wanted to write about. My second book, it's a little bit fuzzy for me, so I don't know. Maybe I'll rest on my laurels a little longer at the first book. We'll see.
Allison:Yeah, let it simmer. But go back to, you were pregnant with it, but you, at some point you said, I need to put this into a book.
Miriam:Yeah, so. a
Allison:was
Miriam:of it, lot of it has to do with the season of my life. So, when we hit our fifties, this is true, not just of you and me, Allison, though you're gonna be nodding your head, but like, this is true of people in general in their fifties, is that we start to think about our legacies. So, that was very true for me. I was thinking about our legacies. It was also during the pandemic. So 2020. I wanted to write a book and I also felt like that ticking time, that clock going on my life. If I'm not going do it now, when is it going to happen? So, there was that additional mortality motivation that really pushed me forward. So, I was very clear and we made a lot of decisions about it quickly. And it was something that I want to leave behind as my legacy. I wanted this to be, and it is, an evergreen book. It's not how to use TikTok, thank God. It is not like how to get better results on Instagram. Like I dance around those topics a little bit just because I don't want the book to be seen as irrelevant, but it's mostly about time tested strategies that will work no matter what the government decides, no matter what happens in social media land. That you understand what the five principles are for building a successful business.
Allison:Okay. That's a great segue into my next question because in the book you outline this framework. And can you walk us through these five key elements, and why they're essential for authors or aspiring authors who are looking to get their work into the world?
Miriam:Yeah. So, I'm going to talk more about just in terms of business in general, because there's authors who may be are writing fiction. It's not really right, that would be a little bit different. DO you agree?
Allison:Yeah, well, we focus on nonfiction around here. Yeah. I mean, I only work with nonfiction authors. If you're new here, I
Miriam:which I am. I'm new to Allison's podcast.
Allison:People who are experts in the world are busy doing the thing that they're experts in. And at some time, they look up and they realize that the person that they mentored has a best selling book. And that burns like salt in a wound. And that is when they realize, holy poo, I need my book to be in the world or time's a ticking. And you know, our time on earth ends for everybody. I need to take action.
Miriam:And I just want to touch on something you just said before I forget. We will get to the five part framework in a moment.
Allison:Okay.
Miriam:You'll keep me on track. But there were many moments in my book when imposter syndrome would kick in and be like, well, You know, somebody else should be writing this book. And then, I would come back to the thought, well, too bad for them because I'm the one writing it. You know, there was a lot of things that I knew. Well, there's other people who understand this mindset much better than I do, I'm not a psychologist, too bad, they're not the ones writing this book. You know, there's other artists who are more successful. Too bad, they're not the one writing this book. So, I would just say that to myself over and over again. So, I'm sure you work with a lot of authors who like that the imposter syndrome kicks in and it's real. It kicks you in the crotch.
Allison:Yeah. Well, I think that imposter syndrome can be really big, but we are conditioned to look to other people for permission. And that's not imposter syndrome. That starts from the time you hit school is you get an A and then you get to move to second grade. And then, you know,
Miriam:Oh, and you graduate and you get a certification and yes,
Allison:you are now deemed to go into the world. and then You get a job and then you have performance reviews. So, we're always looking to somebody else. Only when you have a creative pursuit, can you say, who gives a poo, what everybody else is doing. I'm doing this and I'm clear about it. And you were always clear about it,
Miriam:and I have to There are five parts. This applies to every single business. No matter what you're doing in the world, you have to have something to sell. That is your production plan. You have to price what it is you're selling. That's the pricing plan. These two things go hand in hand. The basic math, not PhD level math, not calculus math, but just, is everything you're selling times what you're charging for, is that going to equal to the income that you want? And guess what? A lot of the times it doesn't. Like the artists that I work with. They'll say, Well, it takes me all day to make this painting and I'm charging$100. And I said, well, you do realize that if you sold everything you create, and all you did was create all day long. That you are limited to$500 a week. You do realize that, right? So, a lot of times they don't. And you're not going to sell everything you create. But I see this also not just with artists, but people who maybe design websites, or coach people, or whatever. They don't look at, well, if I was fully booked, would I get the salary I want? And the reason they're underpricing themselves. I mean, there's many reasons, but the biggest one is they believe cheaper is easier to sell. it isn't. You need to be reassuringly expensive.
Allison:Amen to that.
Miriam:And then, Allison raised her prices and then I was like, well. what
Allison:time I did everything you said
Miriam:I know, but you're not supposed to raise
Allison:Because you're so wise and also so clear about what holds every person back that it's really easy. It's like going to a specialist when you need a diagnosis. And then, that person has an aha moment like, Oh, it is that. I've heard you on your podcast.
Miriam:So, I'm learning to bite my tongue when I'm in the real world of giving free coaching. So, there's this like makeup artist I found and she's only charging$200 including like the lashes. And she does the makeup for like celebrities like Erika Jong. I'm like, I want to say to her, honey, this is a$500 service. But I don't want to tell her that because I don't want to pay$500. I want her to keep that$200 for me. So, I'm learning to bite my tongue now. And I go out in the world, I don't need to coach everybody who gives me services. Anyway, five parts, production, pricing work hand in hand. The next thing is prospecting. That is finding the people, building your audience, and it is not about building a bigger social media following. If you get the first two things right, you don't need as many people. A lot of artists and entrepreneurs, they think all they need is a bigger audience. But the real problem is they're not charging enough. And it's very difficult to make up for their low prices with a higher volume. That's what leads to burnout. And also, like I said, not people are not necessarily going to buy more things. It's not going to attract more people by selling it at a lower price. Sometimes you want to be that like Birkin bag of whatever it is that you do. You know, people are dropping$35,000. It's very hard to get one. They're all handmade. They're made with saddle stitches or whatever. So, those are the three things, prospecting. And I put a big emphasis on email marketing because it is the cockroach of marketing. It is not going anywhere. It's very difficult to kill. When I started writing my book, the engagement rate on Instagram was 1%. By the time I went to edit it, it had dropped to 0.6%. by 0.6%, for people who aren't mathy, that's not 6%, that's 0.6, 0.6%. So, out of a thousand people, that's six people, but it's dropped. I just recently checked up on that stat. It has dropped to 0.4%. That's out of a thousand people. Four people will engage with you. If you compare that to email, the average open rate is, what's your open rate, Allison?
Allison:70 something.
Miriam:The average open, that's very good by the way. The average open rate is between 25 and 50 percent.
Allison:Well, I mean, if I had a bigger email list, I'm sure it would be smaller or less. But yeah, my email open rate is pretty good. I mean,
Miriam:good. for you. But
Allison:thing, I mean, people love Instagram because they love the experience, but they don't realize that you putting posts on your Instagram profile only go to the people who are even following you. And most of them aren't seeing your posts.
Miriam:It no longer only goes to your followers. So, here's something that I'm glad you brought up, because we have to clear this up. It used to be Facebook and Instagram build a big following. And then, TikTok came along. And TikTok basically said, we don't care who you're following. We know what you want to see. And that's what we're going to show you. So, you can have a million followers on TikTok. And nobody even knows who you are, because you can follow someone on TikTok and never see their posts ever again. Because the algorithm is Because the algorithm is deciding. Now, because TikTok was so huge, Instagram decided they were going to do the same thing. Basically, the algorithm decides who's going to see your posts. That's why the engagement rate has dropped so precipitously. But we can't just blame the algorithm, people aren't on the platforms and consuming platforms in the same way they used to. When there used to be only one place, one game in town. When it was just Facebook, yeah, everyone was there. When it was only two, sure. Everyone was there. But now, everyone's attention is spread very thin. So, it's not just about the evil algorithm. But here's the thing. On these platforms, the algorithm decides, right? What is the only platform that is not based on the algorithm? Email is the only one. You know, who decides if they're gonna open your email, Allison? Your subscriber decides. On The social media platforms decide if your followers are even gonna see it.
Allison:That's just so rude. I mean, isn't it? It's just so rude. It's like if you sent a letter and the postal service was like, meh, we don't think what you wrote is worth delivering. We would be ticked off.
Miriam:Yeah.
Allison:Yeah. Let's go back to the
Miriam:Okay, So we're talking about
Allison:we're hitting them.
Miriam:Pricing, production, prospecting. The next one is promotion. Promotion is selling. Promotion sounds like marketing, but I had to have another P word. So, it's.
Allison:Well, but promotion can feel intimidating, especially for creatives who spend so much time alone creating, whether they're introverted or not, they're just not used to it. So, let's go through the four
Miriam:Let me just like, I'm going to just Describe. So, prospecting is finding the audience. Whereas the way I'm defining promotion, just so it fits is really once you have those people selling to them. And some people know they're afraid of selling. But some people don't realize that that's the problem because they say things to themselves that sound true, like, I can't send a promotional email out right now, it's an election year. Or there's an earthquake, or there's a fire in California, or there's always something by the way, just so you know. I mean, every time I give that presentation, it's like, yeah, there's an earthquake in Marrakesh, you know, there's always a reason. Now, these things that we tell ourselves, these stories we tell ourselves, they sound real to us. And the smarter you are and the more creative you are, the better you're going to be. You're going to be at coming up with these, bullshit stories.
Allison:Yes.
Miriam:But they feel real. That's why I don't call them excuses. So, what happens is whenever our brain is uncomfortable, whether we're aware of it or not. Let's say, you're afraid of selling, but you're not aware that you have that fear. Your brain will come up with reasons why it's a terrible idea. is a really bad idea because your brain has evolved for survival, not goal achievement. So, your brain just skull. It's only job is to keep you safe in the cave. Stay in the cave. Let's not send out promotional things. That's scary and hard. And I have all these reasons why that's a terrible idea.
Allison:Correct. Yes. So, have we gone through the five?
Miriam:Nope. We have one more.
Allison:Okay. That's what I thought. What's the fifth one?
Miriam:Okay. The last one is productivity. And a lot of people say, wait a minute, what's the difference between that and production? Production is what you're producing to sell. Productivity is how you manage yourself, how you stay organized, how you manage your day. Are you spinning? Does everything look equally important to you? So, you don't know where to start. All these things fit together. Remember what we just talked about, your brain coming up with reasons things are a bad idea. Hmm. A lot of people they want to stay safe, so they don't want to fail, and they will come, they will do procrasti learning.
Allison:Oh my gosh. That was my favorite word that you ever made up. I mean.
Miriam:Yes, I have new one. It applies to people like you and me. It's called procrasti meeting.
Allison:Oh, exactly.
Miriam:Yes. And I have to be aware with my team. And I said to them, don't let me do procrasti meeting. Cause I feel productive because I'm making decisions, but I'm keeping you from doing your work.
Allison:Yeah.
Miriam:Procrasti meetings.
Allison:Yep. We don't need to touch base more. We can actually have a 15 minute meeting if we're prepared. Otherwise, if we don't know what we're going to talk about, let's not meet.
Miriam:Well, also my has told me stop with the ideas. We don't have time for new ideas.
Allison:Right. I mean, one thing you're so good at is consistency. Your program, The Artist Incubator, which my friend Rachel just joined, that was so amazing to find out. Because I met her just recently, which you know how hard it is to make friends when you're an adult, you
Miriam:Totally.
Allison:So, we just hit it off at what our sons play on the football team. And we hit it off, and she said she was an engineer, that she really wanted to be an artist. I was like, that sounds like my friend Miriam. And I said, well, we've got to get together. And she showed me her website, which is beautiful. And of course, she's charging like a nickel for everything. So, that'll be fun for you to fix. And I've met her for coffee and I brought her your book and she said, Oh, I don't need it. And she pulled your book out of her purse because she said, I joined her program because you said. And I realized that I was already listening to her podcast. I'm like, Oh, that's awesome.
Miriam:It's beautiful.
Allison:That was awesome. Yeah. All of your success is trickling down and I was just so glad to be like, you already know where that's so cool. So, you have this framework, but I think the thing that people, when they're procrastinate learning, they're also like networking. They're networking in super tiny ponds. They're networking and really itty bitty Facebook groups and they think that building their audience is actually connecting to the people that they already know and sort of growing organically. Then, they get really frustrated because they're like, my audience isn't growing. Nobody's sharing my book. I'm like, well, cause you're asking people who are your peers to be your fans. That's not the same thing.
Miriam:I do think that is a strategy though. And I suggest for my artists to always start with like your inner circle of people because they can be your biggest cheerleaders. But the piece that if you really want to grow is publicity. So, I put a big emphasis on that for a lot of my artists, they don't live in New York. I have artists who live in Montana. I have artists who live in Arkansas. So, they need to do publicity. And you and I, Allison, that's why we have podcasts. That's why we go on podcasts. It's about putting that message out there. But that can be very scary for a lot of people. You know, that sounds like a very scary thing. So, we have to come up with the reasons why this is a bad idea.
Allison:Right. It's intimidating. I've never done it. I don't want people to feel like I'm so into myself and so full of myself, which is I hear a lot. Or yeah, I hear it all the time. After I do one interview, what else am I going to say? Do I even need to do more than one? Like, um, yes.
Miriam:I say the same thing on every single podcast I go on because there's like millions of podcasts and we don't listen to all the podcasts.
Allison:But even your seven or eight or fifteen year podcast, I don't know that we landed on a number. You're providing the same sort of guidance, but I listen to every episode
Miriam:you mean on my own podcast? Okay. Yeah.
Allison:But I've heard you on others podcasts, and sometimes I stumble across you on a podcast, oh look at Miriam, Miriam's here too. And I listen to the whole thing and I still get something out of it. And it still feels new.
Miriam:Yeah. This is something I'm talking about in my next book, if I ever publish. It's called Play Your Greatest Hits. it's kind of, yeah. So, did you see the new Bob Dylan movie?
Allison:No, I don't think I can sit through Bob Dylan singing for
Miriam:Oh, but Timothee Okay. So the point is you don't have to see the movie to get the point. The point is Bob Dylan, he was very prolific. But when he would go on tour, people wanted him to sing, Blowing in the Wind, and he didn't want to. Or if you look at Robert Plant, people wanted him to do Stairway to Heaven, but he was like sick of it. But when you go out into the world, people want you to play your greatest hits. You have to say your same message over and over again, and people actually don't get tired of it. They want to keep hearing it, maybe in a new way. Maybe they want to hear it with the piano instead of the guitar, but they still want to hear it. So That is really, you know, my messaging has been fairly consistent throughout whatever we decided it's been five or six years I've been podcasting, but I do talk about things in a new, fresh way. Sometimes I change my mind about things. But my messaging has been fairly consistent over the six years.
Allison:Right. So, you talk about this shift, but how can they shift their mindset or their approach in a way that feels empowering and less scary?
Miriam:It will be scary. So, this is the thing you, okay, it's not about getting rid of the fear. Successful people, this is a write it down moment. Successful people are willing to do things unsuccessful people aren't. I remind myself of that all the time.
Allison:That's a mic drop moment. Why don't you say it again? Because we are going to emphasize here.
Miriam:Successful people do things unsuccessful people are unwilling to do.
Allison:Damn straight.
Miriam:So, if you want to be successful, you have to do those uncomfortable, scary things even though you don't feel comfortable. Now, what will happen though is you will get used to some of them. And it will become easier. Like my podcast interviews in the beginning look a lot different than they do now. I'm very comfortable behind the mic. So I wasn't always.
Allison:Right. As a listener, but I think it was all just gems and goodies. But I'm sure it was a different process entirely.
Miriam:Totally. I like in podcasting to being like a duck. So, you're gliding across the surface, but underneath you're madly paddling.
Allison:Right. Right.
Miriam:You're taking about what should I ask? Did I drop the thread? What do I want to say next? Is my audience really interested in this? Should I cut Miriam off because she's going on a tangent? Am I going to tell my editor to cut that part out later? Those are the things that we're thinking about as we're doing the interview.
Allison:I was not thinking that.
Miriam:Alright. Good.
Allison:And Marichu won't cut this out because she knows that I like things to be conversational. And this is how we get to the good stuff anyway. Now, I want to pivot a second because now that we know this framework, what you talk about on your podcast and in the book is the importance of storytelling in marketing, because that can take some of the sting out of feeling like you're pushing or selling. Because people don't want to be sold to because
Miriam:No, they don't. No, they, yes, they do. Yes. So yeah, you can smell desperation. It doesn't matter what words ChatGPT gives you. If you go in there and you're feeling desperate, it's going to show. It's like a beautiful woman who did not take a shower.
Allison:Rank. Yeah. And it shows up everywhere. It shows up on your website. It shows up in your social posts. It feels like, Hey guys, if you've ever wanted to do this, I'm selling this thing that's only costs a dollar.
Miriam:No. It's like this. I'm assuming this artist isn't listening to the podcast, but I won't use her real name. So, it won't matter. Like she sent this email. She's like, I'm really struggling. And she sent me the email for me to edit. And I was like, I had to redo the whole thing for her because she was saying things like, and if that's too much for you, then you can do a payment plan. It's like, why are you talking about payment plans? Nobody said to you it's too much. You're sending an email out to your list. And like the whole email was dripping with that kind of desperation. Like you're not your customer. And nobody said it was too much money. You're already sick. And then, she's like, and then I want to help. And I'm, you know, and if you're also feeling so down about California and it was like so negative, it's like you don't know that they're thinking about it. You're the only one talking about it. And then, she gave like three different charities that she wanted to donate and you can pick the charity you want. I was like, no, no, stop. You
Allison:goodness.
Miriam:You may donate to a charity, but you decide which charity. Pick one. Don't link to them. Don't take them away from your website to go check out the charities. Just tell them you're donating X percent to X charity. Period. Don't talk about payment plans. They haven't decided if they wanted to buy it yet. You know, it's like, we say this things out loud and it sounds ridiculous. But to the person writing it, it was like, they believe this is what they need to do because they are thinking, oh, the reason people aren't buying my art right now is because there's a fire in California. Remember we said, you could write, this is what she's thinking. I can't sell right now because there's a fire in California and expensive is hard to sell. Those are thoughts that she has to get rid of. Now, what I'd be more interested in hearing about is not California fires, not that she's donating, not about the payment plan, but tell me a story about what life is like in Berlin. Take me away from California. Take me away from America. Tell me what it's like over there. I would like to hear a story about the cafe you visited this morning that had I don't know what they served there because I've never been there. But you know, whatever.
Allison:I don't know. I'm sure they have coffee.
Miriam:Sure they do. I'm sure they have very good. I'm sure they have good desserts there.
Allison:Yeah. Well, the thing about including a charity or offering this.
Miriam:There's nothing wrong with the charity, so don't hear me wrong. But her whole email was about giving people reasons to buy instead of just telling me a story about your day. I would have been much more interested.
Allison:But nobody buys your thing because of the charity donation you're making. And that's a nice. And it reminds them that you have a good heart, but it's not a reason for them to buy.
Miriam:No. And she was making it the reason to buy. It was like, they have to like your art to buy it. Like that might push them over the edge because they feel like they're doing a good thing. they have to like the art. It has to be good art. talk Talk about getting into the studio, talk about the feelings.
Allison:Right. The feeling they're going to have after they buy the art. I mean, that's one of the things that you talk about in the book is how to sell in person because you were sharing with me the experience of going to art fairs and how a lot of artists greet someone at art fair, they step into your tent.
Miriam:A lot of artists don't greet people but this is not just artists. So, when I go shopping, do you now notice when you go shopping and the salesperson doesn't introduce themselves to you, it drives me nuts. But then there's, you go to these chain stores where all the salespeople are very well trained. What's your name? All right, Allison. And they take your thing and they write your name on the little chalkboard. Your stuff is over here. And I feel seen.
Allison:I feel such relief. Such relief, like, thank you. Yes, I do need jeans that fit.
Miriam:Yes, I do want your help.
Allison:I do want to leave here in six minutes and I don't want to spend all day looking for the thing that I know I need and I know you know where it is.
Miriam:Yeah.
Allison:Just please do your job. Don't make me do the job looking for the thing.
Miriam:Right.
Allison:That's what I like.
Miriam:Like how I came to you to help me with the book proposal. Just help me get to the finish line faster. I know what I want to write. I just don't know how to put it in this format, so the publishers will pay attention. Just help me with that. Right. Like I know how I want to look, like you said, I know I want a pair of jeans that fit. You know where the jeans are in the store. Go get them for me.
Allison:Please don't make me Exactly. Exactly.
Miriam:Don't make me walk out if you're naked, like, while like into the thing, you know, when somebody's dad is there walking out.
Allison:Oh, yeah, that is the worst.
Miriam:Like, you need a size and you don't want to get all dressed again because it's snowing in Massachusetts, and you got your boots, and you're like half naked. You just want someone to check in on you.
Allison:So true. When the creatives or artists or visual artists and authors, they have this fear, which is a real fear of rejection. Even when they're pitching a podcast or pitching an agent or just even what to put on their website as their, let's call it, their brand story. They usually put what I would call is their job title, like Allison Lane Artist. Nobody wants your job title. And they're so afraid of presenting themselves as someone who can offer an answer or an opportunity or a visual experience that you can bring into your home. So, what advice do you have for creatives on crafting that compelling story that attracts people?
Miriam:Yeah. Okay, this is again what I've been working on for my next book. But it's also on my podcast the inspiration place. So, this is what I talk about on The Inspiration Place. You don't have to wait for the gatekeepers to say, yes, we're going to publish a book.
Allison:So, when people want a personal story that attracts people, so that the buyer or the person reading their social post or their email is connected.
Miriam:Yes. Our souls have different aspects. One aspect of our soul is the creative side. Our creative side cares about what and how. We have also a sacred side that cares about who and why. The problem with people's about pages is they're either talking about what and how. Like, I'm going to offer six Zoom sessions, you know. Nobody's buying your program or it's coming to you because they want Zoom sessions. They want a result. The other thing that they do is they focus on their own who, and their own why. I created a cookie delivery service because baking makes me happy. All right. Nobody cares about that. They care about their why. So, when you're writing your about page, you need to think about who your customer is and why they want what you need. Start from there. It's not the Simon Sinek start with your why, it's start with your customer's why.
Allison:And when you get to be in your fifties, your resume is like a kaleidoscope. There are a lot of colors.
Miriam:Oh, gosh, I can't stand those about pages that want to give you like the autobiography. Like I was this and I was that and then I got divorced and like then I would like, I need, I went on a trip to Costa Rica and found my true calling. Nobody cares. Just tell us what you're doing right now.
Allison:Right. Yeah. I'm sure there's a place for all of that color and it is interesting that you left teaching in order to go train horses. But if you're not doing either of those things now, then saying you're a former horse trainer and a former teacher doesn't help someone connect with you.
Miriam:Okay. Well, let me just give a caveat because artists will look at my about page, and they know I'm been in a successful artist. But my about page right now is written to attract artists. It's not written right now to attract collectors. So, I talk about being on Wall Street and leaving that to become an artist, because I know that story resonates with my ideal client who dreams of becoming an artist, but is stuck in a corporate job. That's why it's in my about page, but it shouldn't be in the about pages of most artists.
Allison:Right. Because they want what you've got. They're like, wow, that's really what I want to do is I want to leave my job and do this other thing. She's been there and done that, and she can help me. That makes perfect sense. Yeah. So, what you're saying is people need to back up and start with their audience's desire, their audience's why. And call that down. We don't need a play by play of how you got to where you are.
Miriam:That is correct.
Allison:As much as it's fascinating that you traveled the globe solo. If it's irrelevant, or if you did it 20 years ago, maybe include that in one of your emails.
Miriam:Or a podcast.
Allison:Or a podcast interview. Yeah, yeah. Now, if someone is listening and they're stuck in self doubt or what I like to call self imposed boundaries. And they're afraid to step into their potential, they're leaning, they're leaning, but they just don't know how to take that first step into either writing or their creative pursuit. What's one piece of advice that you'd give them right now?
Miriam:Mm. That's great. Great question. There's two things I say in the beginning of the book. I talk about starting before you're ready. But what I want to talk about is how I end the book. So, I end the book with keep marching forward. That's the last chapter. Because as long as you're taking forward steps, Even if it's in the wrong direction, you're going to get someplace. It's kind of like, Allison, when you're in New York City and you're taking the subway, you have that experience when you go up the subway stairs and you look around and you don't know which is downtown or uptown. So, you just sometimes you just have to start walking, and then you'll find out, Oh wait, now, I'm at the 17th Street. I must have gone downtown. So, you will be better off than the person who's standing on the corner, scratching the head, of course.
Allison:Right. Frozen. Wondering.
Miriam:There's Google Maps. Well, let's pretend your phone is out of battery. I thought the analogy works. So, keep taking forward steps and don't blame your boots. In other words, don't blame your circumstances.
Allison:Right. You can find anything out. You can Google how to get published. And you know what comes up? My website. Many, many resources, many podcasts. And there is information available that you don't have to go to a$20,000 retreat at the base of a mountain somewhere in order to discover information that is just how it works. You don't have to take a class in order to find out something that's like publicly available information, but you do have to take the action. And keep marching. I love that.
Miriam:Keep taking action, not procrast to learning, just keep trying to do things and be willing to do things even if they're not going to work out.
Allison:Because you'll get somewhere.
Miriam:You'll get somewhere. And if you went in the wrong direction, you will not have wasted your time. You would have learned something more than just staying in place.
Allison:Right. Where can listeners connect with you and learn more about Artpreneur and your coaching program, The Artist and Computer?
Miriam:Okay. Well, if you like what I had to talk about today, there's more of that on my podcast, The Inspiration Place. However, I do have a special gift just for your listeners, Allison. Can I tell them about it?
Allison:Yes!
Miriam:Okay. Since, I know many of you also want to be published authors, this is my special never before heard gift just to Allison's listeners. If you send me a verified, honest review of Artpreneur on Amazon, so just send a screenshot to miriam@theinspirationplace.net, I'm assuming that email will be in the show notes. I will send you the query letter I used to get my agent, Michelle Marden.
Allison:Ooh, that's a good one. Wow. Thank you. So, you hear that? Get the book, leave a review. Give us the email again.
Miriam:When you write the review, it needs to be a screenshot or when Amazon tells you,'Oh, your review is up.' Forward that verified review to miriam@theinspirationplace.net.
Allison:One last question. What's a book you love right now?
Miriam:Oh, I just finished reading Trust. Have you read that?
Allison:No.
Miriam:I don't know if you were looking for nonfiction books, but this is a, it's so good. So, it's a Pulitzer prize winner. So, it's not like, you know, I have good taste in books. Trust It The Way It's Written is the author wrote the book in four parts and each part is a different narrator. And it's like having four books within a book. So, it's like competing narratives of the same story. It's so brilliant. And the author, Hernan Diaz, actually changed like the style for each time because he had a different narrator for each part. I loved it. I thought it was great. It's very good for our times because you know, which story do you believe? Do you ever really know the truth?
Allison:I love that. That will put Trust and the link to it in the show notes. I always provide the bookshop.org link because the big A gets enough of our funds.
Miriam:Unless it's
Allison:Miriam
Miriam:artpreneur that you're sending a review about.
Allison:Unless it's needed. And then, sometimes on bookshop, a book will be out of stock, but it'll be available on Amazon. So, I don't know how the world works, all of it. But I do know that it's nice to have options. So, you'll get the Amazon link for Miriam's book, Artpreneur, and I'll include other links for trust. Miriam, thank you so much for doing this. Everything that you offer people is so valuable and inspiring and you continue to inspire me. Even, last week's episode that you did with Jen Lehner, that with your Kvetch and Kvelt, which I still need to look up. I don't know which is which cause I don't know the Yiddish.
Miriam:I will give you a quick Yiddish lesson. Okay. So, Yiddish is very much like onomatopoeia. The words usually sound what they mean. One is good and one is bad, right? Okay. So, right? Kvetch is bad, right? CAVELL! It's like yell, yay! So, does that help you? Remember which is
Allison:Well, now that you acted it out. Yes. Yes. Thank you for the verbal charade. That was great. First of all, thank you so much. This is so great. All this information will be in the show notes. How to reach Miriam. How to get her book and details on how to get that freebie and her agent query letter that got her agent. And subsequently, started her journey as an author and her brand just continues to explode. So, look for it there. Thank you so much.
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