How to Build a Successful Podcast & Writing Community with Mike Oppenheim | Ep. 46

Ever wondered what it really takes to start and grow a successful podcast? Or how to build an engaged writing community that actually supports your creative work? 

Allison Lane sits down with Mike Oppenheim, novelist, musician, and host of “Coffin Talk,” a podcast in the top 3% of all Apple podcasts globally.

Mike shares hard-earned insights on launching a podcast, running a thriving Substack, and leading writing workshops that help authors improve their craft. They dive into the biggest mistakes new podcasters make, why consistency is king, and how to create a sustainable content strategy—without burning out.

If you’ve been thinking about starting a podcast, building a newsletter, or finding your ideal readers, this episode is packed with actionable strategies. Hit play now.

What You’ll Learn:

• The #1 mistake new podcasters make—and how to stay consistent without burnout.
• How to build an engaged writing community through workshops, Substack, and podcasting.
• Why video is changing podcasting—and whether you should make the switch.

Resources Mentioned:

• Mike Oppenheim’s Substack: mikeyopp.substack.com
• Coffin Talk Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coffin-talk/id1551574282
• Book Recommendation: East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9780140186390 
• Attend Allison’s free Compassionate Critiques event series: lanelit.com/cc
• Connect with Allison on Instagram: @allisonlanelit 

Timestamps:

• [00:02:44] The biggest mistake new podcasters make (and how to fix it).
• [00:05:53] What surprised Mike the most about launching a successful podcast?
• [00:11:52] Why video podcasting is the next big shift—and how to adapt.
• [00:18:35] How to give (and receive) better feedback in writing workshops.
• [00:24:10] Should you start a Substack? Here’s what you need to know.
• [00:30:21] The truth about writing, fame, and success—what every author

Your book launch is your chance to build your visibility and grow your audience. In the Bestseller Launch School guided program, I'll show you how to get buzz before your book hits the shelves, master pre-orders and early sales to get attention and keep sales going long after launch day. Live trainings start April 30th - June 11. Grab your seat now: https://lanelit.com/bestseller 

 No matter how you're publishing, you need to launch your book like a pro. Join me 7-week guided program: Bestseller Launch School. Live trainings start April 30. Grab your seat NOW!  https://lanelit.com/bestseller  

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Transcript

Mike: 1:34

The number one way to lose a customer is to be inconsistent. There's nothing that irritates the average consumer more than inconsistency. So, if you're going to release a 30 minute podcast every week, release a 30 minute podcast every week.

Allison: 2:10

Welcome, welcome back to the Author's Edge. I'm your host, Allison Lane, and I'm here for you. I'm your literary sherpa because publishing is too freaking hard because publishing is actually also marketing and branding and navigating and networking. It's all the ings. And I don't want you to have to figure all that out, too. That's why we're here. Every Tuesday and Thursday, if you subscribe, you'll get notice of not just the interviews and the trainings, but answering your Q& As on Thursdays in shorty episodes. And you might not know this, but you can send me a question and I will answer it. And all you have to do is ask. It's that easy. Go to this episode's description, click at the very top it says send me a text, click send me a text. Tell me what you're writing, what you want to write, or ask me a question and I will answer it. I swear. Okay, let's get to it. Today, we're diving into a world of storytelling and podcasting and building creative communities with Mike Oppenheim. Mike is a novelist, a musician, host of Coffin Talk, the podcast that is now on my mind all the time. Coffin Talk is in the top 3 percent of all Apple podcasts globally. And it's a podcast exploring the meaning of death, which is also the meaning of life, right? Why are we here? What happens next? These are big questions and big questions that we should be tackling. Mike also has a successful writing workshop. He's helping writers define their craft. Plus a novelist, plus an MFA in writing, plus a career spanning copy editing and touring with rock bands. If you want to start a podcast, or start a sub stack, or lead a writing workshop, you won't want to miss this conversation. So, let's get into it. Welcome, Mike, to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here. We are going to dive deep. I'm going to start with the question that I think everyone just needs to hear in that's,'what is a mistake you see people making when they start a podcast. And how can they avoid it? Particularly because your podcast is so interesting, such a surprise.

Mike: 4:53

Well, thank you. First of all, appreciate it. And my podcast, Coffin Talk is about the meaning of death. So, I interviewed guest and asked them, what they think happens when they die of death. And where that going to lead them and how it might lead them in their life. But what I learned about podcasting, I actually learned when I used to manage restaurants in my 20s. Which is the number one way to lose a customer is to be inconsistent. There's nothing that irritates the average consumer more than inconsistency. So, if you're going to release a 30 minute podcast every week, release a 30 minute podcast every week. It does not matter if the podcast is subpar or perfect. It's more important to release. A decent podcast every week, because of course a horrible one is not going to help you. But then, it would be to wait for the better episode or delay the release. So, maybe stack a couple that you have in an emergency, that's something some podcasters do, or be comfortable with flying solo if your guest cancels on you or something like that. If you have no guests, then it's much easier. But the number one thing that matters, and this is also true if you run a substack or any other publication is deliver it the same amount on time that you promise. And it's always okay to over deliver, but it's never okay to under deliver.

Allison: 6:01

I feel like, that's a message for me. I started my podcast in September, but I have so much to say. I was like, I'm going to do two a week and my listeners. And hello listeners, I'm so glad you're listening on your way to drop off your kids or while you're getting seven whole minutes to yourself while your daughter runs into Target to get the new Starbucks drink that she has to have, except then she's going to doctor it and it's essentially high C. I'm speaking for myself. Like for the love of Pete, that's just raspberry tea with spoonfuls of sugar. But if that's how you want to spend your allowance, super. So, I appreciate you listening. But I know that you're like, give me the goods so I can get this and get out cause as soon as the kids hit the car, in a carpool, you have to turn your favorite podcast off. And I don't want you to have to turn me off. Right? Cause then, they look at you like, what's this? So, I'm taking your message because I deliver podcasts on Tuesdays, and then my Thursday episodes are less than 15 minutes where I answer people's questions. If you want to ask me a question, you can at any time go to the episode description and click send me a text. Send me a text, ask me a question, I will answer it on Thursdays. But I like what you said too about over deliver. I've been thinking about doing a bonus series

Mike: 7:35

Yeah.

Allison: 7:36

Because I could answer 30 questions today and 30 questions tomorrow. They're that many. Let's go back to when you started your podcast Coffin Talk. What surprised you most about launching and growing a podcast? Which is in the top 3 percent globally, of all podcasts globally. What What was the big aha?

Mike: 8:02

Yeah. I think the big aha was that I like doing it. I love meeting people, and I love interviewing people, and that's been my MO my whole life. But I didn't ever think of it as something I would do either professionally, quasi professionally, or even amateurly. I actually just was bored during COVID and I love podcasting. I actually love radio. I grew up listening to talk radio. So, it's the best blessing ever for my personality that podcasting became mainstream. I was is ranting and raving about podcast back in like 2009 to people, and I'm not saying it as like, I'm an early trendsetter. Not at all. It was more I was a weirdo just telling people, Hey, if you like talk radio, I know they've banned all of it from the airwaves and it's now just sports or whatever top 40 and that's it. That's all you have on a dial. But luckily this podcast and thing has come out. So, the success and like what has fueled the success is kind of one in the same, which is I really enjoy meeting people and interviewing them, which is very different from meeting people and talking to them. Interviewing allows you to penetrate quicker and deeper into someone's psyche with their permission. And that's a really important step to gloss over because it's like the opposite of a first date. A first date, you're like, let me get as little information from you as possible so I don't weird you out, and you don't weird me out, and let's see where this goes. But with a podcast, it's the exact opposite. You got 30 minutes, maybe an hour. Or if you're Joe Rogan or you're crazy like that three hours, but that's like, I'm not into that. Uh, and that's it. You got to like, get in and get to know them. So, that's a skill and it's a skill you can develop, but it's also something you have to have a comfort level with you clearly have. But it's like, you got to trust that the person coming on your show wanted to be there in the first place. And then the other surprise to me is just every single person has a really nice. And comfortable, and well intended, philosophy on metaphysics that I have interviewed. And I've done 230 interviews. And so, I'm just I'm just shocked. I keep waiting for someone to be mean and nasty and stereotypical, and no one is. And I'm talking about all religions, all atheism, everything. So, I think the world is a much nicer place than the media and other people want us to think.

Allison: 10:02

For sure. I wish that I had known about your podcast in 2020 when you started it, because my mother had died, year before, just before, a year before COVID. Honestly, thank heavens, because I think it would have just crushed me to not have been with her. As you weren't allowed to go in the hospital and be with your loved one as they passed. But then, I became the hospice that was so vital to my family and me. I'm a writer and I've been helping people capture their nuggets of wisdom and their stories. And I became a hospice volunteer and with the hospice of the Chesapeake, because we were living in Maryland at the time, now I'm in Boston. Go, Beantown. Their heralded for their programs, and they go all over the nation and teach other hospices how to do their thing. So, I quickly became an end of life specialist, focusing on helping people write their ethical wills, which sounds fancy. And all it is is capturing the stories that often come up at the end. That the family says, I've never heard that story before. I didn't know that. And the people are stressed with the grief and what's going on in front of them, but they don't think to write it down. And that's a shame. So, I wish I had known you then, because that would have been super helpful.

Mike: 11:34

Well, I'm glad I know you now, because I would love to have you on Coffee Talk to talk about all that, so hopefully after this we can set that up. Because that is truly remarkable. And I did hospice volunteering as well, but not, it's hard to explain, but I want to hear what you just talked about in much more depth. That's incredible. I think that it's so important what you did and are doing. I just think that this culture, our culture, the Western culture, and especially America, really needs more people like you who are not just aware of it, but want to give out and help other people, especially not just the elderly who are dying, but the family members who can't cope with it. It's double full.

Allison: 12:53

Right. Hospice is so, we'll talk about this on your podcast, but hospice is so vital, but people think of it as something that only happens in the last six days of someone's life, which is the average. The average hospice stay or designation is six days. When my mother was dying for nine years, she had stage four breast cancer that had spread to her bone marrow. And then, she was a super survivor. Johns Hopkins studied her and they didn't know that gumption could keep you alive and also hamburgers. You know, when they're telling you, you really need to cut down on the red meat and the milkshakes. She was like, no, that's my one meal a day is I have a burger and a milkshake and then I go to a movie. That can keep you up, but it would have been so helpful to have resources of understanding. Yes, we will talk about it. Now, with podcasting over the last couple of years, everything seems to have shifted and changed and emerged. What's a major shift you've seen in podcasting and how has it changed your approach of your show?

Mike: 14:09

Yeah. We just switched a video and I would say that's the biggest shift is that there's a reason I said I was a fan of radio. I also liked television, but they're totally different mediums. And there's like all these apocryphal stories about how like, if JFK and Nixon had been televised and only televised, then JFK wins the election, but if it was only on the radio, Nixon wins the election in 1960. And these are again, apocrafolders. And there's no like prove to it. But I do believe that certain extent video killed certain radio stars. And so, I think the trend in podcasting to switch to video has to do with youth and it has to do with like the fact that YouTube it's just like not cool to just show a clip. So, we're on a video podcast and I actually I think when you interview someone with only audio, which is what I did for the first two and a half years, you actually do a less good job. There is something much more magical when you're making eye contact and you can see each other's reactions. So I endorse fully the recording of the podcast and video. But what I actually don't love is this trend that it has to be video and that you're supposed to have like a detailed set design and background and all this lighting and stuff because it takes away from the from the actual purpose which is like you said. I'm taking the kids to school. I'm in this place. I'm out on the trail I'm just like this is my moment of Zen and I just want to hear someone have a conversation or talk to me very different than like, I want to sit and observe you and like, oh, are you aging? And like, did you put makeup on? It's like, I don't love the entertainment industry and I'm reluctantly in it. And I think that has a lot to do with my career. And the more I admit that I'm reluctant and the more I grow up out of that, the better I do. So, that would be kind of one in the same. And that's my way of saying why I switched to video was a lot of peer pressure, but I won't lie. It has elevated the recording process for me. So, I don't regret it. But that's the biggest trend shifter I've seen.

Allison: 15:53

Yeah. I prefer video because no matter what? I like to see people and also I'm very animated. My hands are whatever. I do have stacks of books behind me, but this is where I keep my books. This is not a set. This is my basement. And I have a sleeping dog right there. And she's with me every day. It's her job, really. But she's in dog jail. She's in detention because she got on the kitchen table. What's that?

Mike: 16:22

My dog is also in dog jail today. It's crazy. Yeah. First time in months.

Allison: 16:26

She knows what she did. But I like it too because yeah, it's not like, I don't have a soundstage. I didn't do the thing that people do. They line their room with foam or put towels all over their desk. I don't have time for that. It's a miracle. This headset works. So, whatever. Now, when we're talking about the other things, you run a writing workshop. Tell me about what do people believe about running writing workshops? And probably, what they believe isn't that true. So, tell us a little bit about that.

Mike: 17:06

Yeah. I think to answer this session, that I was in the MFA program, a Master of Fine Arts for creator who writing fiction. So, to run a workshop, I would suggest that you've been in that kind of program. I also was a college writing professor, so I have a lot of experience teaching. I was 10 years an ESL teacher in addition to that. With that said, one of the reasons I like writing workshop is to prevent bad authority figures from running a writing workshop. You can do a lot of damage to a young writer, and there's a lot of ways to damage them. And one of the best ways to damage them is to let other people give bad critiques. So, your main job if you're running a writing group is actually to elevate the critique group. It's not really to help the writer. Of course, I can help a writer. I'm a copy editor and I have tons of advice and I've been published, but that's not really going to actually help them. As you know, you're a writer, like writing is a solo thing. And then, you have an editor. There's a lot of outlets for how to get better. But a workshop is where you come to see what conflict you're presenting and how it's coming up and how people are dealing with it. And so, the job of a focus group, a writing workshop is to give personal feedback, but without taking it personally. And that 2nd part is very hard for most people. Triggering is one of my least favorite expressions. It exists for a reason. It needs to absolutely. But if you are in a literature group and you're giving feedback for stories, I mean it's just like it's part and parcel of the game. You have to be okay with getting triggered. So, what we do is that you obviously, you can just say, I'll pass. You never have to give criticism. So, I think that's an important rule. Don't force everyone to give feedback. There's a reason they might not wanna give it, and it's because like the story reminds'em of childhood trauma. They can't separate it and they don't want to. And so, they're actually being mature by saying I have nothing to share.

Allison: 18:47

I would say, or they just don't know how to give a critique that is productive.

Mike: 18:54

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing I'm trying to teach them.

Allison: 18:57

And it's out of their comfort zone.

Mike: 18:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Allison: 19:00

Yeah. I'm so glad you talked about critiques because I offer a monthly series I call Compassionate Critiques. It's free. Anybody can sign up. You can go to lanelit.com/cc. And like I said, it's free. It's monthly. You come, you share a page, a priority, a problem. And I split people into groups of three, and you read your page, and show it, or you get input, and feedback, and compassionate input from other people who are in it with you. So, that way you don't have to ask your husband to read your work, because he's never going to get it. He doesn't even read the books that you want to write. He doesn't know what a website's supposed to look like. But you know, I do. He doesn't care what your logo is. For sure, don't ask your sister. My sister has never read anything I've written. Maybe one thing, and she was like, I don't know, I didn't love it. Like, thank you for your input. Not helpful. So, you got to know where to go. And I do think the big challenge for compassionate critique is to stop sandwiching. Like, this is good, and this is good, because people do want to get productive input. So, nobody wants to hear, like, I love it, except this one thing, which feels like you're sneaking up to pour lemon juice in somebody's paper cut. They do want something, but not in the negative. So, I think it's so interesting that you're like, Ooh, what other tips does he have for how to actually give the input that people can take away with them, especially inside of 10 minutes. If you share a page of dialogue, and it's choppy, it reads choppy because there are a lot of he said, than she said. And you were thinking, gosh, this is not a great writing. It could be, how do you give that feedback?

Mike: 21:11

I think the most important phrase is just start with, how can you help someone make something better? So, it's never about, was it good to start with? Was it bad? You just skip that step. That doesn't even matter because they're there for a reason and you don't really know their reason whether they want to be a professional writer or they just want to have a group in a community because both are possible and both are great. But with that said, your job as a facilitator and your job as a member of the group is to help elevate. So, I always say at least one comment suggested to improve the piece, which I think can always attack dialogue tags and like, you know, too many. Like it's a perfect starting point because even someone with really low self esteem who's new to writing can at least hear that and like, at the very least, they might even know what a tag is. You know, you might even just be helping them with that.

Allison: 21:53

When I see too many tied dialogue tags, my advice is go get a Brad Thor novel, and there are no dialogue tags. And the plot is almost entirely dialogue. That is how to increase pace. Ta da. I mean, I love a thriller, but I definitely love like a Vince Flynn series. I have read every one of them. Even the ones after he sadly passed. Which you know, as a reader you could feel. Like this is not written by him.

Mike: 22:30

Yeah, totally.

Allison: 22:31

So, between podcasting and leading writing workshops, what is the most rewarding part or surprising part of creating spaces that are for conversation and creativity?

Mike: 22:49

Well, I'm going to assume based on your Starbucks story that you have children of your own. I also have children. My daughter right now is more into pretending she's Elsa than pretending she has a healthy drink in her hand, but you can do the mental math. But the point is what I've really learned is that human connection and like being present and listening to someone and just being there for people is much more important than any amount of fame or success or career aspirations you may have. And it does not require having children to, like, bring this into your life, but I think the immediacy of just how many people have touched my life because I've interviewed them, it's like the opposite of what I would have thought going in, so it's not like, I do this wonderful podcast and all these people, you know, it's the total opposite. It's like, Oh my gosh, this person gave me their time, and they gave me their heart, and they answered with like a clean conscience, and they went deep, and they even may have said things that are risky to say, whether it's political or opinionated especially when you're in a medical podcast because you always at risk and when you volunteer what you think is most sacred in this world. And that's something I take lightly. And so, between that and the way it works, it would inspire us to see the name. I just had a party at my house. I'm not anti-social, but I'm not exactly the most social guy in the world. And so, it was a big deal for me, they invite everyone from the writing collective that we've started. So, I invited I think, like, think like 25 or 30 people over. A lot of them came and it was like a really wonderful evening for me because I got to see this community that I didn't start by the way, I was a member of it. And then, the guy got busy who runs it. So, he like gave me the leadership role of the group. And then, I just took it off running and we're still really good friends. We talked the other day. He still runs it, runs it. But yeah, that would be my answer I never saw it coming because I'm also a writer, I have a also have a substack and all this things I do when I published novels. But all of that pales in comparison to like the feeling I have right now talking to you and the feeling I'm going to have the rest of today because I connected with a total stranger from Maryland slash Boston where my parents are from and you know, it's just it's cool like all these little connections. And like I said, in this time where the media, it's just lifting us to think we all hate each other and we have extreme opinions. We really don't. And it's just so clear to me through a writing workshop because we have people in all political persuation in that group, you know. It never comes up ever. It doesn't even matter, no one cares. We had a meeting with the FEB election. We had a meeting with the FEB inauguration, you know, it doesn't matter. We're just people. So, I know that's like a really out there answer, but that really is from my heart. Yeah.

Allison: 25:12

No, I totally get what you're saying, because as a coach, I started out writing, especially in the wake of my mother's death and started a Facebook community just with six people. Because I didn't know you could create a Facebook group. And very quickly it went from a kind of a small group where we're like, what did you do this week? What did you do this week? To me, answering everyone's questions every week, and then I was doing weekly workshops because my background is big brand marketing. People didn't know how to write a pitch letter. How do I pitch the media? How do I figure out what to put on my website? Why are agents not responding to me? What's wrong with my first page? I'm like, um, this is 25 years of marketing talking and that pitch letter reads like a letter from camp. So, I don't say that. What I say is here's my template. Please don't start from scratch. You don't need to pay someone a thousand dollars to figure out how to pitch media. We can do it inside of an hour. During the compassionate critiques, I mean, for the love of all that's holy, don't pay for something when someone like me or someone like you is like, please let me help you. Because the ripple effect of what we're doing together is so much more powerful. I love that. Let's talk about sub stack.

Mike: 26:42

Cool.

Allison: 26:43

One of the most asked questions I get is, How do I start a sub stack? Should I start a sub stack? What makes a good sub stack? Sub stack, sub stack, sub stack. Talk to me about what advice you would give to someone thinking of starting a sub stack.

Mike: 27:04

Okay, I have a lot and I'm going to try to go quickly because I know that I want this to be not long winded. First of all, I would be remiss if I didn't mention my substack is mikeyopp.Com. That's M I K E Y O P P dot com. And the reason I'm suggesting it is I'm going to talk about my model a lot. So, if you go to that site and look at my model, you can see what I'm talking about.

Allison: 27:23

We will put it in the show notes too.

Mike: 27:26

But I just think it's relevant because I use Substack for everything. So, my background really quickly, I was a professional musician in my early twenties. I was a filmmaker on and off in my twenties and thirties. I'm also a novelist. I also have been published in newspapers as a nonfiction opinion editorial writer. I'm a public speaker. I'm a podcaster. I play like six instruments. So, my point is Substack is awesome because it's free hosting for everything. So, I have tabs on my site. Let's say music, novels, non fiction, podcasts, and like, and you can keep adding tabs. I have a link directly to my Amazon author page so that people can buy my books. You can also charge different tiers of membership so you can figure out who your fans are and what they want. So, I'm currently releasing three different things behind a paywall every month. And then, for free, four things every month. But I'm releasing nonfiction, fiction, and podcasts. So, I'm doing like multiple things, and I'm figuring it out as I go, that part. But the part that is easy is go to Substack because it's a home for writers and creative types, and it's growing, not shrinking, and a lot of people have this Oh, it's too late. I didn't get in. But guess what? There's first wave, second wave and third wave. And Substack is about to hit third wave, but it's not even there yet. It has 30 million users. Facebook has 2 billion. Do the math. It's definitely up and coming. And the new generation is bucking a lot of trends with like, they don't love social media. A lot of people aren't on TikTok and YouTube shorts, and they do want to read. And Substack is a unique place where you can do short form and long form content. So, with all that said, if you want to start a Substack, it's as easy as could be. You just go to www. substack. com and you sign it up. I'm sure there's a million people there charging money to give you advice for how to set it up. I'm a bumbling, loving guy. And so, until I'm too famous to answer your emails, you can find me and ask me and I will help any person who's listening to this. That's just my nature. I actually hope to always have enough time to offer that. I have no idea how that's going to work with my career ambitions and other things, but what's really important about substack is having a good attitude and going on to it with a good attitude. Your attitude has more to do with Your success in anything because you'll judge your success with your attitude. So, if you have a impatient attitude, you won't get results quick enough. And if you have a patient attitude, you won't notice your results. And so, Substack has metrics and things, but what I cannot stress enough is that I used to use buzzsprout for my podcast. You have to pay buzzsprout. Substack does not charge you anything up front. It's all based on other people paying you and then taking a cut. And I think that's very fair because they're investing in you to be successful. They're not taking your money and saying, good luck. It's the total opposite of most platforms, and I believe in the owner. I've heard him speak on a couple podcasts. And I actually believe he's just one of those people who really wanted to build something for something he loves, which is writing. So, Substack has a notes feature on it, and they recommend strongly that you use it to get it success on it. I have not found any success with the notes, but I'm still trying it diligently. What I will say is if you think Twitter is too red and you think Blue Sky is too blue, Substack is right for you. It's definitely a non political yet entertaining, social media site. Just like, Blue Sky or Twitter, you can post pictures and content with video. And they host video and they automatically upload everything to YouTube for you. So, I said I wouldn't make a long landing, so I'm going to stop myself here, but let me know if I missed anything.

Allison: 30:47

Well, I don't know. I don't have a substack, so there. I very joyfully have decided to chop off the lifeless appendages of my digital presence. And I'm not adding to them because I cannot keep track of all of the things. It just takes up mind space.

Mike: 31:08

I totally, get.

Allison: 31:09

As much as it's probably appropriate for me to be there. I cannot. I cannot. Let me pivot. What is a book that you love?

Mike: 31:20

You know, the only one that I always come back to is East of Eden. And I really don't know, it's probably a conflux of many things. But I'm from California, I love John Steinbeck, I loved his attitude. I feel the same way about poverty and the rich coming from like middle class. I just feel like torn between this desire to help people, but also I'm not dumb, I can tell that some people just don't want to help themselves. And his novels are all about that. But East of Eden is Like whenever I see that Succession is a popular show on TV, I'm like, yeah, that's kind of East of Eden. Like, everything, that novel, it's about three generations and the way he weaves character development into it and the way it works and the way it reads. I just still remember to this day, it was one of those books where I like, there was like an attractive girl into me and I was choosing the book over her and that's like saying something. I was in my early 20s, you know, it's like it's one of those books where I just remember like saying now I'm not going to go to that party. I need to like finish this. And I plan on revisiting it someday, but that really there's other books I love, and there's other books that changed my life more, but I think that is like probably the best fiction novel ever written. So, I'm going to go with East of Eden today.

Allison: 32:25

All right, we'll put it in the show notes. Mike, before we call this podcast complete. What's one thing you want to leave people with?

Mike: 32:32

Yeah, I thought a lot about this. I wish someone had told me this when I was young. I f you are a writer, okay, and I'm not talking about if you are a musician or film maker or any other performer. But if you're a writer, And if there's any part of you that wants to be famous, you should immediately look yourself in the same mirror and say, that's very unlikely. And the proof is, go ask any friend of yours to name three current writers that they like. And I doubt they will be able to. They'll probably say Stephen King, even if they don't like him, just because people don't like not knowing the names of people. They might say that person who wrote E. Prey Love, but the point I'm already making is you've gotta love what you do and just do it. You can't look for like this outcome, and I know it's partly like Buddhist attachment to outcome, but there's a real truth to it. If you love writing, be a writer and go to Substack and try your best. And God bless whatever comes to you, because it will. But being famous and writing, I wish someone had told me when I was much younger that not to link those two things because the preoccupation with fame can be really distracting and disastrous for everyone. So that people know they can go, they can find out what six instruments you play. Don't tell them now because that we want to leave people wanting something. So, if you want to know what six instruments you can go to Mike Oppenheim's sub stack, just check the show notes. Thank you, Mike. And thank you listeners for spending this time devoting time to you. We're here for you. And the fact that you chose this over doom scrolling through Instagram. First of all, good on ya. And secondly, I can't wait to find out what you're writing. Drop me a note. Literally, go to this podcast episode's description, click send me a text, tell me what you're writing or what you want to write. Because sometimes you have to tell someone to make it true. And to take it from a dream. that is just floating around to real. What you think about you might bring about, but when you say it out loud, it becomes the truth. Do it for yourself. And until next time, I can't wait to see where you find your edge as an author.