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Google Analytics: How to Know What’s Working with Philippa Gamse | Ep. 52

• Allison Lane • Episode 52

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Is your website working for you, or against you? If you’re feeling overwhelmed by website jargon and SEO, you’re not alone. 

Allison Lane joined with Philippa Gamse, a digital marketing and analytics expert, to share the biggest mistakes authors make with their websites and how to fix them. You’ll learn how to turn your website into a powerful tool that attracts readers, grows your platform, and sells more books, all without becoming a tech expert. 

Tune in now to make your website work smarter, not harder.

What You’ll Learn:

  • The #1 mistake authors make with their websites (and how to fix it).
  • How to track and understand your website analytics without feeling overwhelmed.
  • The simple tweaks that can turn website visitors into book buyers.

Resources Mentioned:

Timestamps:

  • [02:10] The website mistake most authors don’t realize they’re making
  • [10:30] Why analytics matter (and how to track what works)
  • [18:45] Quick website fixes that make a big impact

Enjoyed this episode? Take a moment to rate and review The Author’s Edge. Your support helps us bring more expert insights to help you grow your author career. And don’t forget to share this episode with a fellow author who needs website help.

Tune in now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0UKrFLIBs

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Philippa:

There's just so many times where we put up a website and then we watch how people actually use it, and then they do things that surprise us. People always up doing things that surprise me. You just never quite know. But the thing about the analytics, again is that if you're tracking what's going on, you you can see when they start doing things that surprise you, and then you can act on that.

Allison:

Welcome back to the Author's Edge. I am your host, Allison Lane, and I'm here to make your journey as an author easier and smoother and more exciting and fun because you shouldn't have to become an expert in this too. Nobody has time to become an expert in all the things, and that's why I am here. I'm a lifetime publicist and marketer, turned book coach or marketing strategist or publishing expert. Nobody cares what my title is. What they do care about, and what you care about is what can you get from listening to this. So, thank you for showing up because you know that you can depend on me to bring you experts who know their poo and are going to deliver the goods for you. So, today, Philippa Gamse is here to talk to us about websites. She's a digital marketer and an analytics expert, which just the term analytics gives me the full body hives. But she gave me some advice throughout this podcast that I'm gonna put into action, and I want you to hold me to it. She has consulted with hundreds of clients and worked on websites that have generated hundreds of millions of dollars. So, for authors, understanding your website and your website performance can feel overwhelming. I felt like just the word analytics makes my chest tighten, but Philippa helped me see that there are a few actions that I can take that will cut through the noise and help me focus on what truly matters. And I think you're gonna find the same. So, today we're diving into how to identify what works on your website and uncover hidden opportunities to make your website and your investment of time and money in your site, work better for you. And make sure that your site is equipped to serve the people you're helping and to sell more books. So, let's get into it. Philippa, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to pummel you with questions because we need your input and guidance. But also as I was reading through and researching all of your brilliance before our talk and pouring through your website, I was like, oh, I don't do that. I know I've been told about Google Search Console, but I don't know what it is. And then, and you said let me take a look at your site. So, I have to admit that everything I know being tech, not tech phobic, but I would say, I've have learned helplessness about technology because I was in corporate settings for so long, and if you needed a wire plugged in, you called, Yes the woman who did that. And if you needed a new screen, you didn't have to determine what that was. And if I needed a website built, I would almost just think it and it would happen because I ran marketing and pr so we need a new site or we need new language, and it would just poof happen now five years into serving people who want to get book deals and build their visibility and grow their career. I am the queen of my website. But only because people like you pointed out, wow, you're not, you're not using your page descriptions. Do you even know what those are? Now, I am, but I think that a lot of people don't know what they don't know. And they feel bad about it, but I don't feel bad about not knowing something because you don't know until someone tells you. So, for all you folks out there who are thinking, I don't know how do I get to a page description or what's really annoying is when people use jargon terms like your H one and H two. People don't know what that is unless you tell them.

Philippa:

right.

Allison:

My H one and H two, they weren't even set up right. But now they are. Now that I made myself vulnerable, what is a common mistake people making when they're trying to set up a functional website they can grow with?

Philippa:

Just clear up a couple of things.

Allison:

Okay.

Philippa:

So firstly you talked about Google search. So Google has various tools to help you you make a website. business better. So that's to do with search. So getting found in search engines, and that's where your page descriptions, H1 and H2 and stuff like that comes in. Okay? It's a really important tool. It's not my specialty. Search is not my specialty. I I know about it. I do some of it but I I would

Allison:

I would defer for any

Philippa:

major work

Allison:

work to somebody else.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

the tool

Philippa:

tool

Allison:

that I specialize.

Philippa:

is Google

Allison:

Google Analytics. Okay?

Philippa:

Now

Allison:

Now Google Analytics

Philippa:

does

Allison:

does in fact connect with Search Console, but Google Analytics is telling you about what's actually going on your website.

Philippa:

So many

Allison:

many people

Philippa:

come, which

Allison:

which is the sort of basic stuff that everybody

Philippa:

knows. Maybe

Allison:

Maybe they sell but the real power of Google is getting into that much more detail.

Philippa:

So for

Allison:

for example

Philippa:

what

Allison:

what do people do when they get to your site? What do you want them to do and do they do it?

Philippa:

And then

Allison:

and then we can start figuring out

Philippa:

things

Allison:

that really help you to focus on what works for your business

Philippa:

Like

Allison:

and what kind of marketing tactics or what kind of people and which of your content

Philippa:

generates the

Allison:

the best results. So

Philippa:

here's

Allison:

here's,

Philippa:

line.

Allison:

You said,

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I don't have analytics

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and I just looked at the website and.

Philippa:

handy dandy tool that I have. I can

Allison:

I can see

Philippa:

that

Allison:

it appears that you have Google Analytics

Philippa:

on

Allison:

on your website. Awesome.

Philippa:

that right,

Allison:

accidents,

Philippa:

which means,

Allison:

means so

Philippa:

it

Allison:

did that. I didn't do it.

Philippa:

okay, which

Allison:

Okay. Which means that you've got all sorts of data

Philippa:

that you

Allison:

you dunno about.

Philippa:

And you are

Allison:

you are shooting in the dark right now, in my opinion,

Philippa:

I guess, which I

Allison:

which I guess I get to say because Oh yes. You can call me on the carpet for sure. Just I are

Philippa:

shooting in

Allison:

in the dark with

Philippa:

your

Allison:

your entire

Philippa:

in your website

Allison:

in your website because you dunno

Philippa:

what's

Allison:

going on, what's working, what's not working, and where you wasting your time and money Amen. To, to any depth. Now a lot of website owners will say, but I know it's working because I get X number of sales which I'm sure you do.

Philippa:

because you know what you're

Allison:

I don't think they come through my website. I don't think they trip over me in a search. I think that most people find me through word of mouth and because I'm on other people's podcasts or I speak I'm invited to speak at women's leadership summit or a industry conference, and that's for me. And most of those people say, oh, I didn't even go to your site. I just knew I needed to work with you. I'm like that's nice, but we still need the site to function because I'm going to send you an invoice or a page so that you can join my course. Exactly so,

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and that's an important point to,

Philippa:

and I

Allison:

I say

Philippa:

You're completely,

Allison:

obviously,

Philippa:

you're running a successful business. Different websites play a

Allison:

A different level of role in each business. Yep.

Philippa:

So for

Allison:

So for some people,

Philippa:

example, if

Allison:

example, if you sell to government, you don't sell by,

Philippa:

It doesn't work

Allison:

it doesn't work.

Philippa:

For some

Allison:

for some people, their website really is a placement

Philippa:

for others. So

Allison:

So lemme just say this. Yeah.

Philippa:

for example,

Allison:

For example, you've got courses and you've got things that go on in your site. So it's not just about sales and marketing,

Philippa:

it's

Allison:

it's also about supporting your ongoing

Philippa:

customers

Allison:

customers in other ways.

Philippa:

So whatever

Allison:

So whatever your website is designed to do,

Philippa:

the analytics is there to

Allison:

is there to help you figure out if it's doing it effectively. And I think that the more I enjoy this pivot I've made in the last several months after I read 10 X is easier than two x. I was like, oh, everything's changing. I had a hard talk with myself and inside of two days I was like, oh, let's cut off the appendages that already are like limping along and everything is focused.'cause there's so much opportunity when we focus. So I love that you're calling me on the carpet on this because it just means that I can get even more focused on serving the people who are already looking for solutions that they could find for free on my site. Every podcast has a blog page where there are answers and also free resources, not wink, get my resource. And it's just a sales tool. It's like free templates people. And we're gonna talk a lot about that. And I'm, so glad that you're raising this for me'cause it's gonna go into my bullet journal, which is then

Philippa:

And then there's

Allison:

there's one other question that,

Philippa:

so

Allison:

so the people who call you, that you hear from

Philippa:

tell

Allison:

tell you they found you in other ways,

Philippa:

your

Allison:

your website, they may have seen your website, they may not,

Philippa:

your

Allison:

Your website may be

Philippa:

support

Allison:

what

Philippa:

to what they

Allison:

they've heard about you.

Philippa:

What

Allison:

What you dunno

Philippa:

is

Allison:

is whether you are in fact getting prospects to your site

Philippa:

who

Allison:

who don't call you

Philippa:

the

Allison:

site doesn't do it.

Philippa:

which you therefore don't know about.

Allison:

Exactly. And like everyone listening to this, who is a debut author or a seasoned author, but they're teaching at university and now they have to establish a website. Maybe their website is seven years old and it's on WordPress Boo. I only say that WordPress is lovely, but I did delete my WordPress site twice by accident because it's not for people who have sausage fingers and have ADHD. And I just saw all the things and I thought, what's this button? And it click and it went, it deleted. So, thank heavens for my virtual assistant. So what happens is these people that are still experts, they're not full-time authors, but they have a book that's coming out and now suddenly they're thrown into, I need a website that works. And usually they set it up and it looks like a digital business card. And so we stop that right away, time out. We don't need your website to be, Allison book coach. Nobody cares what your role, your title is. They just wanna know, what do I get? But then we have to know that when you are an expert writing a nonfiction book, you are providing solutions and inspiration and perspective that people are looking for using Google.

Philippa:

right.

Allison:

And if your site is not set up for that, and mostly I'm talking to myself now, allison. Then you are essentially shouting in a room with a closed door. I have all this, but you can't hear me. Walk us through the basics of what do we need to know and take action on so that we don't feel like we have to hire an agency to set this up for us. And also just answer the question. I know people are gonna ask, can Philippa do this for me? Probably the answer is maybe yes, I don't know. But just walk us through, what do we need to know?

Philippa:

So

Allison:

so lemme say this

Philippa:

I'm

Allison:

I'm actually writing book myself right now.

Philippa:

which

Allison:

Yes. I'm very excited. Oh, I can't wait to learn more about that.

Philippa:

Yeah, I'm hoping

Allison:

it's

Philippa:

in the second quarter, which

Allison:

coming up

Philippa:

actually.

Allison:

The thing. What I find is a lot of people that I work with are like you and

Philippa:

and,

Allison:

You have your expertise, you have the stuff you love to do.

Philippa:

Looking

Allison:

Looking at a load of graphs and charts is probably not gonna that, Right?

Philippa:

So you talked

Allison:

you talked about, bringing in an agency and

Philippa:

Some

Allison:

some agencies are very good, some of them

Philippa:

Really are

Allison:

are not,

Philippa:

because they

Allison:

they don't understand analytics in depth.

Philippa:

use

Allison:

analytics effectively,

Philippa:

you've

Allison:

you've really gotta understand the business and you've gotta understand what you're

Philippa:

you're looking

Allison:

looking at.

Philippa:

And a

Allison:

And a lot of

Philippa:

agencies will

Allison:

do what I, In business

Philippa:

vanity metrics, Which

Allison:

Which is really

Philippa:

you've

Allison:

you've got more visitors this week than you did last week. So we are doing a great job as your agency because we're bringing you

Philippa:

of

Allison:

to people

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and everybody's happy.

Philippa:

You don't

Allison:

You don't ask more questions,

Philippa:

But the

Allison:

the obvious question.

Philippa:

so what?

Allison:

Were the visitors, that they're getting you the right

Philippa:

what did

Allison:

one. What did they do?

Philippa:

they

Allison:

they fulfill the outcomes that you actually want them to do on your website?

Philippa:

For

Allison:

for you, as the business owner,

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I don't want you

Philippa:

to

Allison:

have to get to grips with that data if you don't

Philippa:

to.

Allison:

Like, no,

Philippa:

nobody

Allison:

who's ever hired

Philippa:

has

Allison:

me has said

Philippa:

what

Allison:

What I really need from you is 50 pages of, Charts and graphs and reports, right?

Philippa:

The

Allison:

The question that people who come

Philippa:

to know

Allison:

to me wanna know is, Philippa, what do I need to know to

Philippa:

my

Allison:

run my business better? And let's make no mistake, when you're an author, your publisher expects you to be marketing yourself

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

your book. So number one, set up your LLC. It'll take 15 minutes. Do not pay someone to do this for you. Just Google irs.gov and you got it covered. LLC. And then second, your website needs to anticipate that people are gonna look for you. They're gonna want to come to your website. Just like you're having somebody over for dinner. They're gonna come to your front door. Do you just fling the door open and let them I'm hiding come and find us? Or do you greet them and walk them through where you want them to go?

Philippa:

right.

Allison:

You don't want them to go into the side room where you threw all of the unfolded laundry. That's a mess.

Philippa:

Absolutely. So

Allison:

So

Philippa:

key

Allison:

key thing for you as the business owner,

Philippa:

if you

Allison:

if you are,

Philippa:

If you're

Allison:

if you're going to work with So me, so the answer obviously

Philippa:

yes,

Allison:

yes.

Philippa:

this.

Allison:

Lovely.

Philippa:

is, This is

Allison:

This is what I do as a consultant Is you need to understand your business inside and out. And you need to be able to explain to me

Philippa:

what

Allison:

what is your website designed to do.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

So if we look at your website,

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I can see various different calls to action. The call to action is when you drive people to next step.

Philippa:

So I

Allison:

So I can see, for example, I'm on the page right now that's looking at

Philippa:

next

Allison:

next chapter network. So you've got

Philippa:

a

Allison:

a community,

Philippa:

obviously you are

Allison:

you are working with individuals, so you've got work with me.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

so you've got different outcomes that you want on the site, right? And everybody has different outcomes and

Philippa:

and it's

Allison:

it's important to know what those outcomes

Philippa:

who each

Allison:

each one is aim

Philippa:

and

Allison:

at, and where those tools to action are

Philippa:

because

Allison:

because then we can start digging in to start looking at, okay,

Philippa:

are the

Allison:

are the outcomes that we're looking for. Actually, it's not.

Philippa:

how many

Allison:

Many people come and, Where do they go?

Philippa:

And

Allison:

and are people

Philippa:

consuming your

Allison:

your content? So

Philippa:

you've

Allison:

you've got a podcast page. Yep. I just redid it. I hired a wonderful woman off of not off of Fiverr, but I think she's on Fiverr as well, but she's amazing. I call her Kajabi Carla because my site is on Kajabi and her name starts with a K. And so that's what I call her. She's fantastic. And I gave her the text and I said, here's the template that I bought from a amazing woman who is her website is Penny in your pocket, So I'll put this in. Everything we talk about, I'll put in the show notes. And Kajabi, Carla had that bad boy up in two days. And what was important is that it just, anything that could be done automatically was done automatically.'cause updating pages, this and that here and there makes my neck hurt.

Philippa:

But for

Allison:

But for example

Philippa:

one of

Allison:

one of the big mistakes that people make with their websites is that they focus on Where do they get traffic from? Because they gonna know that things like social media are working for them and then they focus on

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and what did they buy?

Philippa:

Or

Allison:

Or again, obviously I'm stressing outcomes here but the truth is that a lot of people come to your website and they don't.

Philippa:

the first time. They look around. And

Allison:

and so

Philippa:

people

Allison:

people tend to forget that whole bit in the middle where

Philippa:

people are

Allison:

are engaging with your content and figuring out what they think about you,

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and really importantly

Philippa:

figuring out

Allison:

out if they trust you.

Philippa:

For

Allison:

for example,

Philippa:

your

Allison:

on your podcast page you could make

Philippa:

way

Allison:

more of your, you've got a lot of content here

Philippa:

This

Allison:

this.

Philippa:

that

Allison:

see a lot

Philippa:

a lot

Allison:

about people

Philippa:

who have podcasts.

Allison:

What you tend to do is you put the newest podcast episode of Cake.

Philippa:

Everybody

Allison:

Everybody does that, obviously,

Philippa:

But

Allison:

but then as soon as

Philippa:

You

Allison:

you have a new episode, everything moves down.

Philippa:

And so

Allison:

so it starts getting lost. I can see it says see more, but,

Philippa:

so

Allison:

typically any single, any podcast site, has tons and tons of content is essentially

Philippa:

hidden.

Allison:

It may well be fuller of, those magic search engine keywords. There may be other ways that you

Philippa:

to promote it or

Allison:

it or use it.

Philippa:

And you

Allison:

and you can also tell from another, it's interesting things like how many people listen This applies to videos as well, right? How people consume the quantum.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

So not only how many people start listening to a podcast

Philippa:

or

Allison:

or watching the video, but how many actually go through and

Philippa:

listen to

Allison:

to or watch the whole thing because a.

Philippa:

people

Allison:

drop off. A

Philippa:

A

Allison:

lot of people don't really have to hold their attention. And that can be very helpful. For example I had a client

Philippa:

recently who

Allison:

who makes tons and tons of very high contact videos,

Philippa:

Which are

Allison:

which are wonderful.

Philippa:

but the

Allison:

But the problem I can see you're looking at your website now. I'm thinking maybe I should pull it up and you can walk through what we should be doing, but let's,

Philippa:

but lemme

Allison:

yeah, lemme just finish up. Example.

Philippa:

an example.

Allison:

The problem with this guy who had loads and loads

Philippa:

of videos with wonderful

Allison:

of content

Philippa:

was

Allison:

was that every single one started with,

Philippa:

morning, my name is, and I've been in this business for 150 years, and I do this and

Allison:

and I did that

Philippa:

And

Allison:

and people got really bored

Philippa:

bored

Allison:

really quickly,

Philippa:

And

Allison:

and he literally lost

Philippa:

50% of

Allison:

of all the people who started every video in the first 30 seconds. Yikes.

Philippa:

and

Allison:

90%

Philippa:

by

Allison:

the first minute now.

Philippa:

that's

Allison:

That's pretty bad, right? That We've really only gotta

Philippa:

of his

Allison:

of his content after one minute and he's already lost. Seven

Philippa:

who

Allison:

people started this,

Philippa:

So

Allison:

so you wouldn't know that without looking around analytics.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And that's really one of the reasons to look at analytics

Philippa:

there's all

Allison:

is because there's all sorts of stuff

Philippa:

know.

Allison:

couldn't know,

Philippa:

You

Allison:

you couldn't possibly know if you didn't start looking at them in more depth

Philippa:

with

Allison:

with an idea

Philippa:

what am I

Allison:

of what am I looking for?

Philippa:

It's not

Allison:

So it's not just how many visitors are there, how many pages are there?

Philippa:

it's

Allison:

It's what are people actually doing?

Philippa:

What

Allison:

What are they engaging with, what do they like that I can do more of?

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And where am I wasting

Philippa:

money and

Allison:

and time

Philippa:

putting

Allison:

stuff up

Philippa:

that

Allison:

nobody cares about?

Philippa:

cares about?

Allison:

Actually, or I should say, putting stuff up that nobody sees either because they don't care or because

Philippa:

not

Allison:

are not directly. So

Philippa:

to it, so they

Allison:

they actually dunno what's there, right? Because no one really wants to go and open all the doors and click all the links and go. Especially because most people are looking at on their phones nobody wants to go scroll back up to find the navigation.

Philippa:

exactly.

Allison:

So yes.

Philippa:

You

Allison:

you said to me

Philippa:

what

Allison:

what should I be doing? Well, What should anyone be doing? But yes, we can use me as the Guinea pig.

Philippa:

Well

Allison:

The thing is, of course right now, I don't know

Philippa:

because

Allison:

because I'm only looking at your site format outside. I don't have access to your analytics right now.

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I could tell you

Philippa:

right,

Allison:

immediately off the top of my head,

Philippa:

several red

Allison:

red flags that I can see on the site.

Philippa:

That

Allison:

that if I had access to analytics, I would immediately start checking out

Philippa:

to

Allison:

oof

Philippa:

see

Allison:

see if there's a problem.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

So for example Your site looks very nice. I love all the book covers and everything, but each page is quite locked.

Philippa:

Now,

Allison:

people

Philippa:

tend

Allison:

not to scroll down one pages unless they're

Philippa:

really

Allison:

interested, especially when the page has this kind of horizontal,

Philippa:

there are

Allison:

there is section, it's like in sections, right?

Philippa:

You, you

Allison:

So I get to the end of a section and if I'm looking, I'm obviously looking at it on my desktop right now. Yeah. It can almost look like I'm at the end of the page. Yeah.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

So am I gonna keep scrolling

Philippa:

And if

Allison:

and if I don't keep scrolling, is there really important content that I'm not gonna see?

Philippa:

Because

Allison:

'cause it's further down,

Philippa:

including really

Allison:

really important calls to action or a place where Your main real,

Philippa:

the

Allison:

this is the point that is,

Philippa:

I'm not gonna see

Allison:

I'm not gonna see it.

Philippa:

one of the

Allison:

And one of the things that we can do

Philippa:

with

Allison:

with

Philippa:

like

Allison:

a tool like Google Analytics, which is of course free although I know people these days are bit suspicious of Google,

Philippa:

a great

Allison:

it's a great tool

Philippa:

Outta the

Allison:

outta the.

Philippa:

It doesn't

Allison:

It doesn't do this. So it's very customizable

Philippa:

and you can

Allison:

and you can customize it to really reflect the specific things that you're looking for that we would decide together that we're looking for. One of the things

Philippa:

that you

Allison:

that you can do

Philippa:

to

Allison:

to measure exactly how far down the page each people

Philippa:

people

Allison:

are going.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

So you can set little flags that fire off and say, X number of people go 25%, 50%, 75%

Philippa:

by

Allison:

by default,

Philippa:

It

Allison:

it only tells you when people are 90% of the way down the page

Philippa:

which is almost to the

Allison:

oh to the bottom.

Philippa:

And for

Allison:

for

Philippa:

really long

Allison:

long pages like you have, that's really not gonna capture

Philippa:

helpfully the

Allison:

the fall.

Philippa:

off. So

Allison:

so that's an example of something that if I was looking at your site, I would immediately check out.

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I would also, by the way,

Philippa:

let

Allison:

let you know.

Philippa:

that is it

Allison:

is it alright if I embarrass you?

Philippa:

you?

Allison:

Oh yeah. I don't get embarrassed.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

am, I actually did immune

Philippa:

join the

Allison:

the network because I actually thought that looks interesting, especially since I've come to bring the book out. Yeah.

Philippa:

and

Allison:

And you've got,

Philippa:

so this

Allison:

this page called the Next Chapter Network,

Philippa:

But I

Allison:

I dunno if you've thought of We all have this problem'cause as the owner we get so close to our site, we don't see stuff.

Philippa:

But

Allison:

I finished looking at the page. I went back to the top to go back and

Philippa:

I, there's

Allison:

there's no navigation at the top of that page.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And it doesn't say

Philippa:

your

Allison:

your main

Philippa:

lane

Allison:

Allison Lane, The main

Philippa:

the

Allison:

the logo says Next chapter network only.

Philippa:

I notice that

Allison:

that if I click on it, I do get back to your regular homepage,

Philippa:

but

Allison:

that's.

Philippa:

confusing

Allison:

Okay. I will address that. That's a super easy fix. Best practice about sales pages like that is, don't put the navigation like way back so that people can bounce around. But yeah, of course my name should be at the top and you should be able to know where you are where you've landed. Yeah

Philippa:

I,

Allison:

and I

Philippa:

you don't

Allison:

I would push back a bit on that personally.

Philippa:

That philosophy. Because to

Allison:

because to me,

Philippa:

this

Allison:

this piece where you force people to do stuff,

Philippa:

it's

Allison:

it's don't treat me like I'm stupid. If I wanna do something, if you're interesting, you, I just told you're interested. I'm bringing the book out.

Philippa:

I see you've

Allison:

That looks interesting. I'd like to know more. You don't have to push me down some sort of funnel.

Philippa:

Dunno. And

Allison:

and one of the great things about

Philippa:

is

Allison:

is that you can test stuff, right? So I can

Philippa:

and say,

Allison:

say I don't like that philosophy.

Philippa:

You

Allison:

You could easily set up testing whereby if somebody

Philippa:

went

Allison:

went on that page, you could serve two different versions of, you can automate this very easily.

Philippa:

right?

Allison:

So one has your regular navigation on it and one doesn't

Philippa:

as it

Allison:

as it's now. Yeah.

Philippa:

And you

Allison:

And you can easily test how those two pages perform against each other.

Philippa:

So we don't

Allison:

You don't have to sit here and I didn't like,

Philippa:

and

Allison:

And it, I'm just listening to the, I think it's such interesting and helpful, written, generous feedback that you're giving to me. So I accept it fully and I will act on it. And yet, I think the best practice is not we wanna shove anyone into a funnel or a tube or give or limit their choices. But when people are confused, when they think, maybe I want something else, and I'll go back to where I was then there suddenly there are too many things to look at, and then they bounce out.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

Especially when websites are not organized in a way that limits people's, scroll. And then it's almost like an ant farm where they're like now I'm lost. I don't know how to get back to where I was. And they bounce out because they're just like, forget it. And of course there's, there's the right

Philippa:

to

Allison:

to approach each situation and Absolutely. Of course, I equally get it. Absolutely. Pages that I've seen that they're so busy that you dunno what to do. And that where there are buttons and they I like a page having multiple buttons that all go the same place. That's why when you go to my homepage that you actually land on the work with me page because that's what everyone says, how do I work with you? And I have not taken the time to develop a quiz at the top that says, do you need this or do you need that? Because that would actually be more helpful. But I don't have that functionality yet, so at least I have work with me and here are three choices. That's it. That's great. But clarity is good.

Philippa:

No,

Allison:

No, and you do have to, I think I said this earlier, you do have to drive people around to take the actions you want them take. So somewhere probably between

Philippa:

complete.

Allison:

But the thing about your networking thing. I think is where I was thinking is okay, I'm interested, but I need to know more about

Philippa:

who

Allison:

who this person is, what kind of, so then I do want to go back to the rest of the site. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that I would say is that,

Philippa:

when we

Allison:

when we talk about best practice, one of the other things I find is that there's a lot of generic advice out there. Yeah. There's a tremendous amount of advice.

Philippa:

You

Allison:

must,

Philippa:

you must do this. Honestly,

Allison:

Honestly, I find that, Your mileage may vary as they say.

Philippa:

So whenever

Allison:

whenever you are looking at that, this is the best practice, This is the general advice,

Philippa:

just

Allison:

just make sure that it really does apply in your situation. For example, there's a lot of information about mobile websites and how many people are now accessing on their

Philippa:

phones, which is

Allison:

is of

Philippa:

very

Allison:

very important because

Philippa:

it

Allison:

it changes the user experience. Yeah. You

Philippa:

to

Allison:

need to make sure before you go crazy about making sure your website's mobile friendly, that applies to,

Philippa:

So

Allison:

so some of my clients are very much a, B2B I've worked with clients in the engineering manufacturing space, for example,

Philippa:

where their websites are

Allison:

their websites are used by people come to buy parts or, Doing research about equipment and stuff like that. And

Philippa:

they

Allison:

they are typically on a desktop because they're in their offices

Philippa:

searching for

Allison:

for stuff. And when you look at their analytics, so your analytics again, will tell you what device do people use to come to your website

Philippa:

and you

Allison:

you can see the breakdown.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And so in those situations, the mobile usage is way low Because of the nature of that business.

Philippa:

So

Allison:

That's what I'm saying. It's important to make sure that

Philippa:

whatever

Allison:

advice you are looking at, it does

Philippa:

pertain to

Allison:

to your situation. Let's take a for instance because I know this is book launch season. There are three seasons a year of book launches. There's January to May, which is very busy, and then there's June through September, which is really good for certain genres. And then there's like September to December, which more books are sold during that time than throughout the rest of the year, which is because of the holiday season.

Philippa:

Right.

Allison:

we are in a busy time right now and most nonfiction authors are experts. They're, or historians or medical practitioners. And I'm just pointing behind myself here. We've got Dr. Mara, Einstein's book, hoodwinked, which is how marketers are using the same practices as cults. Frightening but true. She's a media expert. And then, this memoir by Jessica, the Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards. She what? It's riveting. And it reads like a thriller. So she didn't have a web, she had a WordPress site, but now people, she's got a bestseller in Canada and the US it is her debut. People wanna connect with her. And she needs a website that can function when she's asleep because she can't write everybody back anymore. And then this is breathtaking another memoir, but it's breathtaking. A memoir of Family Dreams and Broken Genes by Jessica Fein, who's healthcare Advocate and now has a podcast. So all of these are very different, but Einstein's book, she had a website before, but she had to develop a new one'cause she knew that people were going to be coming to her site looking for advice and she needed to have some guides that were easily downloadable. So she prepared that in advance. She's not doing, courses or classes yet. She's still teaching at the university. But these memoirs, would you write a memoir? People who want to write a memoir, want to quote unquote air bunnies pick your brain, which is the after two people,

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

You have to charge for that. Put people in a group, they appreciate it more, they learn more. They value the community more, and you have to anticipate that people are going to ask. So you wanna be prepared for that, which is my long way of saying, at the very least on your website, anticipate that people are going to be looking for a solution and a way to get personalized attention, which doesn't have to be one-on-one. Based on that, Philippa, if you could guide people how to welcome a new visitor to their homepage, what should they be greeted with?

Philippa:

Actually, that's a

Allison:

that's a great question because like you're saying,

Philippa:

some

Allison:

some homepages try to do

Philippa:

a

Allison:

a bazillion different things. Yeah.

Philippa:

One

Allison:

One of the most, you said that you've got three different types of,

Philippa:

People, is

Allison:

is that right? Is that what you, the three I just gave you, there's usually a memoirist that's a debut or a seasoned expert, or every, almost everyone I work with is a debut author. And they're running an ER in, at a major hospital and they don't have time to become, they just need things to work and they need them to set it up the first time, which means setting up a website means writing it in a way that then the person laying it out for you can just do their job. But if we don't write it the content in the way that Philippa that you tell us to, it's gonna stink. Because no matter what, you land at the top. And the biggest mistake I see people make is that they want the top to say, hi, I'm Allison. No, absolutely not. We don't need that.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

Yeah. I think actually you said it

Philippa:

already. One

Allison:

already.

Philippa:

things to

Allison:

of the easiest things to do is to say, okay,

Philippa:

the

Allison:

you know the main categories of your visitors

Philippa:

to say

Allison:

to say, hi,

Philippa:

are

Allison:

RUA

Philippa:

a

Allison:

A memoir, person B, whatever,

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and immediately direct them to

Philippa:

a

Allison:

a page is dedicated

Philippa:

to that

Allison:

person.

Philippa:

or to that

Allison:

That type of visitor.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And something else actually that I would like. See on your side because as we're talking, you really come across this at all Is a welcome video.

Philippa:

Hi. So

Allison:

So you're thinking of writing a memoir, here's how I can help. Here are just few things you need to know because

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I think that would be really powerful. I do love too. I have, I am not shy when it comes to just talking in my basement into my camera. There's no one here. And if I don't like it,

Philippa:

You do

Allison:

then I do it again.

Philippa:

I think

Allison:

I think that would really come across, because at the moment

Philippa:

you

Allison:

you don't have that right. I don't see anything. I had one, but I didn't like my sweater or the lighting, so I took it down because I'm vain. And I think that yes, but I recognize that should have been on my list. I'm gonna put it into my bullet journal so that right after this I record.

Philippa:

But

Allison:

welcome.

Philippa:

anybody watching, if

Allison:

If you have some very different categories of visitor that you can identify Just like Allison just did,

Philippa:

then that's

Allison:

that's a really good technique is to have separate pages for each of those where you can talk directly to the kinds of things they're gonna wanna hear. As opposed to trying to say all things to all people,

Philippa:

all the time, which really

Allison:

doesn't. Yeah. So that's super helpful. So the thing is for anyone who has a debut coming out, one of the first things we do is identify who your audiences are. And everyone has five different audiences and know they don't overlap. So, you may not say I'm writing a memoir, so my audience is people who love memoir. No, that's not how people read genres. That's how people read fiction. Oh, I love historical fiction. That, or I love erotica meow. But that's not how people read nonfiction. People read nonfiction around a topic, a theme, or a solution. And they don't read just memoir. They might, so let's take The Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards as an example that I know it's the best title ever. And Jessica Waite is such an unassuming, lovely, soft-spoken woman, and I love her dearly. And the fact that she wrote this book and it is so honest and compassionate. And also direct is ever Canadian of her. She's the sweetest woman. So when we were looking at her audience. And I worked with her in a small group program, which Ps now I know I have to update my website to say that. She of course was thinking memoirs or anybody who's interested in grief no, that's not, people aren't, what we're the audiences are. Anyone who's been widowed that, that's beyond grief is like saying anybody who breathes, like it's too big. Anybody who's been widowed and is and anyone separately, anyone who has a relationship that is unresolved. But they're separated from that person. You can't resolve a relationship with someone who's passed.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

And, or maybe you can. But those are two different things. And then, there's also she had topics about financial independence because her spouse died and he handled all the dollars. There was that and there were three others. But now that we know that she can address those people based on the podcast that she's been on, and she's been on my podcast. And direct them to the podcast episodes that they would be most interested in and make sure that they're on her site. Is that what you're saying?

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

Yep.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

Okay. So for all these authors and

Philippa:

Just to say

Allison:

Yes.

Philippa:

the

Allison:

The categories that you identify are

Philippa:

are easy for

Allison:

for people to self identify into. Okay.

Philippa:

So if

Allison:

if somebody's looking at it going

Philippa:

dunno.

Allison:

dunno, I could do that. Yeah. That then it's a little more difficult. I think that sometimes I see on websites maybe even like podcasts or like a media page that you can search by topic.

Philippa:

Yes.

Allison:

Yes. So that would be one way to do that.

Philippa:

Another a great way to organize your podcasts earlier I talking about the amount of wasted content I see on podcast sites or or podcast pages, So so that and that's something I did with one of my my clients, we

Allison:

we created

Philippa:

pages for her

Allison:

podcast. I mean she does

Philippa:

for management

Allison:

podcasts. But you know

Philippa:

that

Allison:

topic, there's

Philippa:

subtopics. Then again, you've got categories. You can point

Allison:

People around into deeper levels of the concept. I love that.'cause that's one of the things that people do normally is that they go by what the website templates come with. Oh, we have a media page and we have an about page and I'm thinking about is boring'cause nobody wants to read about your backstory. Or

Philippa:

no, actually I

Allison:

I like to meld them because nobody wants 15 pages.

Philippa:

Okay.

Allison:

Yeah. Okay. What,

Philippa:

only

Allison:

only thing I was gonna say is in my experience

Philippa:

if

Allison:

if somebody

Philippa:

goes to a

Allison:

to a business site

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and they've never seen that site before. Yes. They do go to the about page because they wanna know who is this person or who is this company,

Philippa:

What's their

Allison:

their history, how long have they been around, do they know what they're doing that about Paige?

Philippa:

you

Allison:

You can't get rid of it.

Philippa:

I would

Allison:

Strongly say you

Philippa:

say you

Allison:

shouldn't get rid. I don't think we should get rid of it, but there's a lot of people have an about a media page. A books page, and a podcast page. And then sometimes it'll be like, press, sometimes they write articles for media versus coverage of them, and they'll have those separated and I go Peter, Paul, and Mary. That's too many pages Of, you just

Philippa:

have to be

Allison:

to careful because

Philippa:

example,

Allison:

if you looking press coverage,

Philippa:

a

Allison:

a press page, a

Philippa:

pre page that's

Allison:

that's dedicated to journalists can be

Philippa:

helpful because

Allison:

because on there, journalists are busy, they haven't got time to find stuff. You give them

Philippa:

You give'em a page

Allison:

a page where it's here's my picture, here's my bio, here's my quotes, here's this, that, whatever you wanna give them. Right. In a one stop shop. And that's actually very helpful thing to do. But wouldn't you rather see that under a navigation that had a dropdown, a top navigation that had a, like, I don't know if you would call it media, or you would have one page that's at for pressing queries, one page that's media coverage, one page at least so it's organized in people's heads.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

It depends.

Philippa:

The

Allison:

but what I'm really saying there is if you have the audiences like you,

Philippa:

are

Allison:

you're really trying to get

Philippa:

where it's

Allison:

it's really important that you make it

Philippa:

absolutely

Allison:

easy for them to try and

Philippa:

find what

Allison:

what they need, then that's the priority. So what's the first step that when people, if they're starting from scratch or they're chucking an old site and they say, okay I do is the first step sketching everything out on a piece of paper so that, where to where you're taking them.

Philippa:

Yeah, it could well be

Allison:

Yeah. It could well be and remember it's a website, so

Philippa:

it it doesn't have to be totally strictly hierarchical because people can jump around. Your Structure You, it mean it's helpful to have a structure so that you know where you're going to start with and what goes well. I mean, The one thing I would say is that in, again, in in all my experience, there's just so so many times where we put up a website and then we watch how people actually use it, and then they do things that surprise us. People always up doing things that surprise me. never quite know. But the thing about the analytics again is that if you're tracking what's going on, you you can see when they start doing things that surprise you, and then you can act on that.

Allison:

What's an outdated website strategy that doesn't work anymore?

Philippa:

That's a

Allison:

Really interesting question. I get bonus points for interesting questions. One of the things I find very interesting

Philippa:

is,

Allison:

is, the work gives us capabilities that we didn't have. Are, Obviously

Philippa:

I've been

Allison:

been doing this for a while, so I've been around for

Philippa:

in

Allison:

in fact, to be honest I've been working with the internet since it started

Philippa:

when I

Allison:

when I was younger.

Philippa:

But that

Allison:

but that gives you the opportunity to see what works, doesn't.

Philippa:

But I

Allison:

but I think

Philippa:

really

Allison:

interesting thing is that marketing fundamentals don't necessarily change. I talked already about one of the most important things you do have to do is establish trust with whoever, with your

Philippa:

your visitors.

Allison:

And you have to be clear that you can do what you say you do. And there's stuff

Philippa:

that

Allison:

that doesn't change in that regard.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

and there's all these predictions about stuff that isn't gonna work anymore. And you, I still,

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I think I still have a screenshot

Philippa:

of

Allison:

of a,

Philippa:

cover of

Allison:

of Wired magazine

Philippa:

back

Allison:

maybe 2010,

Philippa:

something like

Allison:

like that said, email is dead.

Philippa:

Nobody

Allison:

uses email anymore.

Philippa:

Kids don't

Allison:

don't wanna use it. It's boring. And here we are in 2025

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and whenever you, surveys of marketers

Philippa:

asking about

Allison:

about most effectively online marketing tactics, email is still way up the top of the list. Yeah. Because everybody's still, this is,

Philippa:

or

Allison:

And we use other things. But

Philippa:

we're

Allison:

we're still using it.

Philippa:

Yeah.

Allison:

yeah. Is there anything that really doesn't happen?

Philippa:

I don't

Allison:

I dunno, I

Philippa:

evolve.

Allison:

think things evolve. I think the change for authors or experts who wanna be contributing to media or expand their expertise and start speaking on stages. Especially as I only work with women and all of my clients are over 50, which means they're seasoned, they're experts, and they've reached the top of their industry. And when you reach the top of your industry and you still know that you love what you do, and you're not ready to go crawl in a hole or moonwalk out of there and retire that you want to share what you know, which means breaking out and following a path that hasn't been set for you. Which means it might mean you're gonna be speaking, but not at an industry conference. You're gonna be speaking at a mass market conference, or I don't know running a course or you have to think bigger about where you're going and you are the one who has to do that. Which means that your website you own now and email is the way to. Where for when people opt in and they say, oh, I am interested in you. They wanna get something from you, you have to give them that opportunity. And just posting on social, even when someone follows you is not a guarantee that they're gonna even see your post. And I think we used to think, maybe they, they won't see it because of the time I posted. Now, they might not see it because the platform might not show it to them. Even though they clicked, show me all philippa's posts, or, I wanna see all of Allison's videos. The only way to guarantee that is to give them that invitation. Hey, I am happy to send you these resources once a week. Give me your address so I can make sure it reaches you. But that's the big mistake that people make, is that they see that interaction as oh, I don't want people to have to give me their email. How are you gonna send something you're giving a gift to someone? Do you expect them to get it? It's not even, we're serving someone. Why wouldn't you deliver something that comes to what they're saying is easy for them. So that's number one on a website, I would think is to give someone a way to get more from you. As I said, email is still

Philippa:

one of

Allison:

one of the top marketing

Philippa:

tools that,

Allison:

that marketers

Philippa:

in terms of

Allison:

effectiveness, therefore, and.

Philippa:

yes,

Allison:

Absolutely. If somebody gives you their email address

Philippa:

they've

Allison:

they've said they wanna hear from you and it's, yeah. It's gold. It's worth,

Philippa:

and

Allison:

and as you said, social media,

Philippa:

I think

Allison:

I think the average organic reach of the social media post is way below 5%. So

Philippa:

it's very, very

Allison:

I think it's below 1%. And social media advertising, again, this is where analytics can help.

Philippa:

I

Allison:

I do know businesses that will jump into social media advertising because

Philippa:

it

Allison:

it feels very seductive

Philippa:

the

Allison:

and the social media companies do a good job at promoting their ads.

Philippa:

It

Allison:

it tends to be cheaper, for example, than Google's paid search ads.

Philippa:

But again, in the

Allison:

in the analytics, you can track by traffic source,

Philippa:

so

Allison:

so you can see exactly who comes from

Philippa:

social

Allison:

media and specifically which platform.

Philippa:

or, and

Allison:

Which

Philippa:

which campaign.

Allison:

And then you can see their engagement levels and very typically, I hate to say this, but engagement levels from social media are very, very core typical because people aren't

Philippa:

really shopping on

Allison:

on social media. They're not really thinking about their business necessarily. They're

Philippa:

likely

Allison:

to be talking friends

Philippa:

watching cat

Allison:

cat videos. I do watch all those cat videos, every single one. We don't have a cat anymore, but I do get caught especially when they rescue a cat.

Philippa:

But

Allison:

you're not in the I'm looking to buy a business service mode.

Philippa:

now,

Allison:

So are you saying that one of the biggest opportunities for people is to make sure that their call to action of you could, sign up here to get more book recommendations or resources for healing, navigating grief or whatever the resource is, but to make sure that you're offering that in a way that's not at the bottom of the page.'cause I heard you say don't make people wait to scroll.

Philippa:

okay, So it could be at the bottom, it should be bottom page. So when you get to the bottom, if you do, then it's there. But there's, you can put as you do, I, it

Allison:

On your site,

Philippa:

You

Allison:

you put calls to action all the way through

Philippa:

for

Allison:

for me.

Philippa:

The

Allison:

the thing is,

Philippa:

think

Allison:

think about the emotional response visitor to the content you're presenting.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And time where they might be saying

Philippa:

that's

Allison:

that's interesting. Tell me more.

Philippa:

That

Allison:

That would be a good place to put call to action.

Philippa:

Because you

Allison:

because you don't wanna make them then have to figure out how to get to the

Philippa:

the next

Allison:

extent. One of the other things that people do that sometimes can

Philippa:

off-putting is that

Allison:

that there's a form that you fill in

Philippa:

maybe as a, an

Allison:

initial kind of contact form.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

it's typically important to make that pretty short because the more you ask, the less likely people are to fill it in. And I've seen forms that ask you all sorts of stuff that, if they contact you, you could ask them that at that point. But again,

Philippa:

with

Allison:

analytics that you customize,

Philippa:

you

Allison:

you can tell

Philippa:

many

Allison:

many people start filling in a form and then don't complete it.

Philippa:

And

Allison:

And again, if you look at that kind of data, you can

Philippa:

easily

Allison:

tell if your forms

Philippa:

potentially too

Allison:

too long or annoying. Yeah, I started a form yesterday and I backed out of it'cause I was like, I don't want to answer all these questions. And it might have been four questions, but I'm like, why do I have to do this in order to come to your masterclass?

Philippa:

right.

Allison:

just, I don't wanna No, thank you. Forget it. It's

Philippa:

owner,

Allison:

older, the.

Philippa:

are you gonna

Allison:

Get I know that sometimes I

Philippa:

go to

Allison:

go to a business webinar and it asks me, for example, you know,

Philippa:

what's the,

Allison:

the, what's your annual,

Philippa:

annual business

Allison:

webinar?

Philippa:

And it's

Allison:

I,

Philippa:

not

Allison:

it's not of their business. I don't see why I should tell them that. And I

Philippa:

I'll

Allison:

lie, I'll say, oh, it's over 50 million.

Philippa:

which it isn't, unfortunately.

Allison:

And so what's the point of that? They've got useless data. Yeah. I recently was asked to be on a podcast and sent the intake form. So they had my bio and stuff. And then it asked me all kinds of financial information what in the world? How, and then I thought, I don't wanna be on that podcast. I don't care how big the audience is. That is ridiculous that they would use that as a, like a trolling tool. I guess some of these I know,

Philippa:

as obviously you can tell, I also guest on podcasts, and I know some of

Allison:

and some of them say.

Philippa:

you

Allison:

You must be making over X amount of money to be a guest on this podcast because I think obviously it's a measure of success in some ways.

Philippa:

I'm

Allison:

I'm not too keen on those either. Yeah, I reached out to you'cause I was like, she knows her stuff. And that's what we're here to do is to help people who wanna write books and are writing books, market themselves better, make better decisions faster with more confidence so that it's exciting and fun. This isn't supposed to be overwhelming and crushing and in no way should you feel like you're spinning your wheels clear direction. So what we've heard today is your website content should be planned so that you know who you're welcoming and what they're looking for. And that google Analytics can help you understand what people are doing once they come to your site and what they really wanna do, so that you can make decisions faster. And that's the best thing. Now, let's pivot'cause I do have two other questions for you. What is a book that you are loving right now

Philippa:

Our loving

Allison:

You mentioned one earlier, so you mentioned nexus, is that right?

Philippa:

Oh,

Allison:

Oh.

Philippa:

yes, that

Allison:

that was in the survey that you sent? Yeah. Nexus

Philippa:

there's this guy

Allison:

there's this guy called Val Noah,

Philippa:

who's an

Allison:

who's an Israeli.

Philippa:

he's like an economist

Allison:

aist historian.

Philippa:

He's

Allison:

He's amazing.

Philippa:

first book

Allison:

His first book was called

Philippa:

which is

Allison:

which is like a history of,

Philippa:

in

Allison:

in terms of

Philippa:

thinking and our

Allison:

and development, the way societies work and

Philippa:

is

Allison:

Nexus is about information and how information works. And, for somebody like me,

Philippa:

it's

Allison:

it's very fascinating. Yeah. We will put that in the show notes. Now, philip last question, before we call this podcast complete, what is the one thing you wanna leave people with today?

Philippa:

Honestly, If you have a website that plays

Allison:

any kind of role in your business and you are not

Philippa:

looking at at the analytics to see what's going on, you you're shooting in the dark with your investment in that light. So please you you don't have to get grip of the data yourself. Find somebody like me can can help help you. But please take a look a look at what's going on and make that website really Worth its great goal.

Allison:

Perfect advice. Thank you so much for being here and for agreeing to help authors get a better edge.

Philippa:

Thank you.

Allison:

For sure.

People on this episode

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Allison Lane

Host

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