How to Build Visibility and Grow Your Platform with Rich Brooks | Ep. 58

What if your book launch isn’t over, it’s just getting started? 

Allison Lane sits down with digital marketing expert Rich Brooks to unravel the myths around visibility, author platforms, and the outdated tactics holding authors back. Whether you’re writing your book, launching it, or trying to breathe life back into it post-pub, this conversation breaks down the essential steps to get discovered in today’s noisy digital world. 

You’ll learn how to reverse-engineer your author marketing strategy and find your readers using tools you already have.

Hit play if you’re ready to ditch the overwhelm and market smarter, not harder.

What You’ll Learn:

• The key digital marketing fundamentals authors can’t skip (and why Wix isn’t one of them).
• How to grow your visibility without relying on social media followers.
• A smarter way to use email and video to connect with future readers.

Resources Mentioned:

• Rich Brooks’ website: https://www.takeflyte.com 
• Rich Brooks' podcast: The Agents of Change Digital Marketing Podcast: https://www.theagentsofchange.com/podcasts 
• Rich on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/therichbrooks/ 
• Book recommendation:
  • CABIN: Off the Grid Adventures with a Clueless Craftsman by Patrick Hutchison: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250285706 
  • The Gatekeeper: A Thriller by James Byrne: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250890030 

Timestamps:
[04:50] The website mistakes most authors make and how to fix them
[12:40] Why your friends and family aren’t your ideal audience
[16:00] Email marketing truths authors need to hear
[24:10] Real talk on what’s working (and what’s dead) in digital marketing
[36:30] How to shift your message beyond your current bubble

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/wat

Your book launch is your chance to build your visibility and grow your audience. In the Bestseller Launch School guided program, I'll show you how to get buzz before your book hits the shelves, master pre-orders and early sales to get attention and keep sales going long after launch day. Live trainings start April 30th - June 11. Grab your seat now: https://lanelit.com/bestseller 

 No matter how you're publishing, you need to launch your book like a pro. Join me 7-week guided program: Bestseller Launch School. Live trainings start April 30. Grab your seat NOW!  https://lanelit.com/bestseller  

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Transcript

Rich: 1:34

You're not gonna beat the internet on volume. You as an individual cannot create the kind of content that these media publishers can do where they have people hired specifically to write SEO content or specifically to run the best Google Ads. It's just impossible for a single person to make that kind of impact anymore. But what you can do is beat the internet on quality or on perspective. So, I think really honing your message and really figuring out what makes you stand out and your results resonate with a certain audience. That's where you should be putting your time and effort.

Allison: 2:34

Welcome back to the Author's Edge where we're trying to make your path so much easier and so much more fun. And I know that the world of publishing and wanting to write a book or about to launch your book or trying to fuel sales of the book that's already out there, that you think that my launch is over. It's not over. It's new to the person who finds it today. So, let's breathe about it. And assume the very best, because I'm trying to lay this down for you. There's always a way. There's always a way that's faster and easier, and it's my job to bring to you all the tips and tricks and hacks that I gleaned over all my years in big brand marketing, but also from this world of technology and new ways that we can be more productive, more creative, more efficient. And sometimes you just need somebody to tell you, this is how I do it and I've made all the mistakes. And so, here you go. So, if you've been wondering what's actually working in marketing lately, specifically in digital marketing. And you're looking to save time because you can't make time. I hate it when people say, I'm gonna make time. No, you're not. Everybody gets the same. You're going to devote time and you want to be more clear and picky about how you devote your time. This episode is for you. Before we get into it, I want to remind you this term, digital marketing means nothing unless we define it. Digital marketing is all about using online tools like social. Social media is part of digital marketing. Email, search engines, websites, all the ways that you can connect with your readers, your audience, grow, your reach even online advertising. All of those tactics and methods, they're all part of the digital marketing soup. And whether you're an author or an expert who wants to break out of your industry silo and grow your visibility, so maybe you can have a smoother path from your tenure to track teaching at the university to also becoming a keynote speaker. Do you notice I didn't say instead of. You're not changing jobs or having a major career pivot. You are growing and expanding because your ripple effect is bigger,'cause you're a grownup now, and you don't need to ask permission. And I'm not that you did, but I know sometimes we are trained to say, oh, I have to start at the bottom. No, you don't. And this is we're opening the doors to let you do this in an easier way. The thing is when you wanna grow your visibility or your become more discoverable, and in the olden days we used to call that build your platform, but that term makes everybody gag'cause nobody knows what it means. So we just poo that. But you do need to have a presence in the digital world. You really can't skip over some fundamentals. Yes, you will have to have a website. Please don't do what I did, which I started with Wix, which is lovely if you are a techie and a good designer. My Wix site was a dumpster fire. It looked terrible. And then, I switched to WordPress, which I deleted my WordPress site twice by accident, by pressing, I don't know a button. And then, I switched to fusionsoft, I wanna say to do all the backend stuff that I feel like you needed calculus to do that. Now, I have everything in Kajabi, my website, all my data because I needed essentially an all-in-one garanimals color by numbers type of tool that would keep all of my online stuff in one place for dummies like myself, you can get super techie in Kajabi, but I don't because it's not my bailiwick. But. If you are thinking I don't know how to do any of that. First of all, we're here for you. And second, I want you to at least be like familiar with these terms so that you have a foundation to build trust and stay visible and engage with people beyond the people you know one to want. People will want to email you after your book comes out and you will not be able to answer all of those emails. And I know you're thinking, how many could it be? I'm sure I could answer them. No, you can't because thousands of people will buy your book. And I know it's hard to believe now, but it's true. No one ever believes how big and meaningful their book is going to be to strangers who have never met them. But it happens every single time and we are here for you to make that happen. Today, I asked, really begged and cyber stocked. One of my favorite people in the digital world who I listened to his podcast religiously. Sometimes I'll listen to an episode two or three times and then stop and take notes of what I'm supposed to do. And even then. Sometimes, I still have to break it down more. Today, Rich Brooks has agreed to come and sprinkle his wisdom so that we can all get better. Rich is a digital marketing pro. He's a long time agency founder up in Portland, Maine, which is so idyllic and gorgeous. And he's the guy behind the Agents of Change podcast, which we will put all of this in the show notes, so you'll be able to click on it and go directly to his podcast, which you should subscribe to right away. In fact, just pause this and go and subscribe to that and then come back. Okay, done. He's been in the game since the early days when God was a boy and dirt was new, just like me when before caller, ID probably I think I might be older than Rich. But in this episode he's breaking down for us what's working now and what to leave behind, including some existing beliefs about technology that you can also leave behind. And some myths that might be holding you back. So, let's get into it. Welcome, Rich. I'm so happy that you're here and that you're going to help us get smarter.

Rich: 9:57

Well, Allison, that was a very kind introduction and I hope I live up to the hype.

Allison: 10:03

Well, I don't know about I think it's all true and I think it's important even this is probably a good learning moment for you listener,'cause I know you're driving and you're thinking Allison says, everybody is big poo. And it's true. No one can actually see how impressive they are unless you ask somebody else. And so, yes, perhaps I said kind things, but all true things because you are a big effing deal.

Rich: 10:33

I've been doing it for a while. You say that coming up 28 years, hereon. I've seen a few things. Yeah.

Allison: 10:41

Well, I'm so happy that we are able to come together and take what the expertise and the best methods that you're seeing out there and translate them to help experts in their field who are not agency owners, and they are not usually coaches, and they're usually starting from scratch. They're running an emergency department at a hospital or maybe they are teaching at a university or they head up HR at a corporation. They don't have a website.

Rich: 11:17

Right.

Allison: 11:18

They're starting from scratch. But you know what they also don't have patience to become a freaking expert in all these things. When I left corporate, America two weeks before Covid, which that's a story I'll tell on another episode. I thought, oh, I'm still capable, I was capable because anytime I needed something, I would turn to my PR agency of 200 people. And say, you know what? Would be great is if we had a website that said this, and it would be like, poof, magic. It would be there. And now that's it's not true. And so, when it comes to starting out, establishing yourself, what's a mistake you see people make when it comes to establishing their digital home base so that they could be marketers. I already told you what my mistake was. I deleted everything,

Rich: 12:17

So, I think of the biggest things is the assumption that social media is gonna be enough. I'm a big believer, and obviously, I run a digital agency that builds websites, so I'm biased, right? But I do think that there needs to be a digital space that you own. Where if you're building your presence on Facebook, or LinkedIn, or forbid X, those are very temporary things. You're basically building your house on borrowed land. And there's nothing wrong of using those tools, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners here would benefit from really coming up with a strategy and executing on that strategy. And I'm happy to talk about that too. You need a domain. You need a website with a domain that you own and start building that up and using social media and other marketing tactics that we can discuss to drive traffic to that website. So that you can build your list, so that you can win over fans, and so that you can build it kind of communication that you were talking about earlier, Allison.

Allison: 13:15

I think that you're so right. It is the first step because there's this prevalent complaint, let's say. That I'm sharing things, but my social is just not growing. Correct? You are posting things among the people you are already connected to who are not the audience for your book or for your message, or for your co. They are peers, friends, and family. So you gotta lower your expectations on your friends or your critique partner, engaging in your content and sharing it. Because first of all, who cares if they share it, if they're not your audience, the people they share it with are also not going to be your audience. So, that's number one. And number two, no matter what you're posting, the algorithm only shows your social content to what's the percentage now.

Rich: 15:01

Well, if it's a business, it's less than one percent. So, if have a hundred fans, you're lucky if one person is actually gonna be fed that content. Which is different than if they go and they seek you out. If they seek out your Facebook page, your Instagram account, obviously they're gonna see that. But as far as actually seeing your content on Facebook, which is the toughest audience. That's obviously problematic. You cannot rely on organic. The exception being, if you are not using a business page and you're just using your personal profile, which is absolutely acceptable that's a way that you could actually get more engagement. But again, there are limitations to the personal profiles as well, and you may not wanna share what's going on in your author life with all your friends and family. So, that's something else to keep in mind.

Allison: 15:48

Very, very true. Usually, when people hear, now I have to build an email list, they think they're being sneaky. I don't know exactly why. But they think, wait, I'm going to collect things and people, you're not sneaking right?

Rich: 16:07

No, you're asking permission.

Allison: 16:09

Right? You're asking permission and people are leaning forward. And saying, gosh, I really wanna stay up to date on what you're doing. Rich, I get all your emails. I don't think that you've stolen my email. When I don't get them, every once in a while they'll end up in a different folder. I go. I know. You really do have to go and whitelist them and over and over again and tell Gmail or Hotmail, cut it out. Do it this way. But I have to go look for it, right? And that because I leaned forward, I asked for it. I want all that wisdom delivered to me in a way that is easy for me.'cause if I didn't sign up for your emails, I would have to go search out. The content that you're putting into the world. And I love that you curate your tips and methods and send me an email. I know it's not directly to dear Allison, this is only for you, but it feels like it. And that way I don't have to go chase down your breadcrumbs everywhere. And I like that's available, but I do think that it's a mistake for people to think how many emails should I send? I get this question all the time, even yesterday, several times. How many emails should I send? What's the is once a month could be. And then they always say,'cause I hate getting those emails. What do you say to that?

Rich: 17:37

Well,

Allison: 17:37

I

Rich: 17:37

would say, never less than once a month. I think if you're sending out emails less than once a month, people forget that they're on your list. And I know for me personally, when I see an email come in, that's a subscription email, and I don't remember signing up for this. I hit the spam button pretty quickly. And I think a lot of people have been trained to do that. So, I think staying in front of the people is better. And the magic words in marketing is, it depends, right? So, it depends what you're trying to do with your list, with your book, with your career. If you're doing something maybe in the non-fiction area where you may be helping people with their A DHD or with their finances or with their relationships. There's probably ongoing content, new news stories come out, new research comes out that beyond the book, you wanna stay in front of these people. You wanna develop something maybe'cause you want those keynote presentations, maybe because you've got another book coming in you. You've got or you've got courses that you wanna sell as part of this whole thing. So it really does depend on what your goals are. And if you have things like a new launch coming out, then you're probably gonna wanna send more often. Some people, depending on their industry, their niche can get away with weekly or even daily emails if you can create that much content. I don't wanna put pressure on you. Once a month is fine, if that's all you can get out there, but I'm sure you have a lot to share. My dad has written probably 13, 15 books at this point, some by himself, some with others. And he sends out a monthly newsletter on a specific topic that's usually around resilience, which is his claim to fame, and he does a lot of clinical research. So there's always interesting things that he can share with an audience that will help them, either their parents or their teachers or their employers. Help them with those kind of categories. So the short answer is, it does depend never less than once a month. And just try and put yourself in your audience's shoes. What do they wanna learn about? How can you help them with their journey? And that's the kind of content that you should be sharing.

Allison: 19:34

I love this, I love learning about your dad and his topic is resilience. That's awesome, really. But it also made me think he's sending something out, you said once a month, but he's also sending a newsletter versus an email, can you d do you delineate those?

Rich: 19:55

I don't really, his email is a standalone email, although I think we trained him to ultimately post the entire article. It's really an article.

Allison: 20:04

Okay.

Rich: 20:05

I mean, If you printed this out, it's five to eight pages each time. So

Allison: 20:08

Oh, okay.

Rich: 20:08

That's what he's writing on a monthly basis. And then the newsletter has some things about some upcoming speeches he might have, or maybe he was just on a podcast or a radio show or a TV show that are available online. So, we do it for him, but we'll link to those for him kind of a thing. Other people, depending on what the topic is, it might be a very brief email. Example, my podcast, I send out an email every week to let people know what the topic is. Sometimes there's some other promotional things if I've got an upcoming webinar or whatever. Those tend to be short and pithy. I just tease up what the interview's gonna be about. I've been trying to include a photo of my life so people get to know me a little bit better. And so that's probably more on what some people might think of like as an email versus maybe an email newsletter. I think that it's like a gray area on when one becomes something or the other.

Allison: 20:57

I think what I'm picturing too is that your father knows who his audience is.

Rich: 21:02

Yes.

Allison: 21:03

If I received a five to eight page article, I better really be looking for that. Otherwise, sometimes you just have to scroll through and go, oh yeah, I got the big points. So, he must really understand what people are looking for and the people who sign up for that.

Rich: 21:24

I would never tell they should write a monthly article or a monthly email that can print out at eight pages. That's ridiculous. And yet he has a very engaged audience. And you mentioned earlier that people will email you. My dad gets hundreds of emails from these and he responds to each one. He's crazy. Whatever. It's not like he has all the time, but he takes it very seriously. So, again it depends on what you are looking to do and this is how he wants to share his knowledge with the world. He's got a lot of research, he's got a lot of opinions and uh, he wants to put it out there. And so, that's kind of how he serves his audience.

Allison: 21:57

And at least he is giving like a really big chunk. The mistake I see people make is that they want to only send one email. And then they pack a bunch of like a bunch of news and here's my take on this and here are the 15 places I'm going to be. And it becomes a patchwork of so much information that it's too much all at once. But they think they're doing their reader a solid because they've only sent one email. And what you've done is thrown a ton of crazy at people. It's too much.

Rich: 22:39

I think some of that content that you just described, and there's no one part solution, some of the content you described might be better social post. There's something that happened in the news. And I would also consider it like, how am I positioning myself? How do I want to be seen? And I want to be consistent here. So, if I've written a book about managing stress and there's obviously a lot of things that would induce stress these days I might social media discuss something that's in the news and talk about how somebody might manage the stress comes news stories like this one as an example. So, that might be a better cause for something that's in social media. The other nice thing about social media if you've built up the audiences that we've talked about, is you might see that something you posted got a lot more engagement and there was a lot more interest around it. Okay, now you know, this is actually a pain point for your audience. So, now maybe that does become an article on your website or the next chapter in your book or an email that goes out to everybody. There's ways can use social media almost as a testing ground to see what to that audience you're trying to nurture and serve.

Allison: 23:39

So true. A big reminder for me to actually go back in and look at my analytics in LinkedIn more often too, to find out what people like.

Rich: 23:49

Well, it's interesting that we, just to talk about this for a second. So, recently I put on a webinar about the practical uses for AI. And we had a signup that you know, we just have a generic signup. Not generic, but we have a signup default that we use and then we customize it. And I went through the process'cause I hadn't done it in a while. And as I'm filling it out, after I finished, I actually, there's a place that says, what questions would you like answered? And I wrote into it like tongue in cheek. Does anybody actually fill out this form? And we had like about 150 people or 180 people. I forget the exact number who signed up for this. And John on my team said, actually, we get quite a few people and there's some great questions in there. So, I ended up going into it just today. I you know, sorted everything'cause it's in a spreadsheet. I sorted and I pulled out all the questions. I dropped it into chat GPT. And I said, can you summarize these questions for me and maybe help me come up with some ideas about future webinars or future blog posts or other types of content that we might create that would help my audience by answering these kind of questions. So, that was just an interesting way of using ai. Pulling from the audience. Yes, I could have read through each one of those questions and I could have thought about different answers. But this was a quick way to summarize this stuff and also generate not the content'cause I don't like using AI to write for me, that's just who I am. But to kind of like frame things for me so I could get my mind thinking creatively about how do I help somebody solve that problem?

Allison: 25:12

I freaking love that. I'm gonna totally steal that about. Like stealing with pride. You know, that idea of you're registering, people are registering for your event for a reason. And they really need like an open-ended, like what are you really struggling with? What questions do you wanna make sure I answer? Genius. I'm doing it.

Rich: 25:36

Absolutely. I'm looking at the book in your background, A DHD for Smart Ass Women. And I'm like, if I was that I was that person and I was putting on webinars things, or doing other things. I'd be asking open ended question, like that what are you really struggling with, when it comes to your ADHD? And I may have things I've never considered that are real pain points for my audience, and now I'm getting all that great data and I know how to serve them better.

Allison: 26:01

That is indeed, yes. That book actually is structured based on the questions that people ask the author, Tracy Otsuka. Because you wouldn't think of it, but high achieving women who have adult onset, A DHD. They're often leaders and then they have a setback at work because their perception is like, oh, she's becoming flighty. No, she's not. She has so many ideas that she needs to be in a different role. Because that's how that same idea informed that structure, but not using ai. So, that would've been a good one. That was before.

Rich: 26:43

I just use AI get to get things done a little bit quicker. It's great that she's already done that. She's done. the work. I would just say when she writes her next book, she could basically save some time and put it towards other places where she can use her creativity and that value. That's kind of how I look at AI these days.

Allison: 26:59

I listened to your latest episode with Dan Sanchez. And of course, I'm on my second listen now'cause I was like, what? Blowing my mind. And we'll link in the show notes to that episode? Can you talk about one big change you've seen recently in digital marketing and how it's improving things for folks?

Rich: 27:26

In terms of artificial intelligence specifically, or?

Allison: 27:29

Well, yeah. Artificial intelligence well, let's start with that. But I was even thinking that people used to go to events and hand out business cards. And now, you can create a QR code, make it your screen saver on your phone. And it can go directly to your scheduler or to your website or your LinkedIn profile. Because in the olden days, you would come back from an event. And have a stack of cards and then have to email everybody or go to LinkedIn and search for them. And that now that happens at the event while you're standing there in real time.

Rich: 28:15

Yes, although I will put in a plug for old school marketing and networking because it is a typical these days and very often we can gain attention by not going with all the recent trends and instead doing something. Like if I get a business card these days and I still have my business cards, even post covid, and I hand them out. Because they're really well designed and they're really nice stock. And people remember that. And as a design firm, that's part of what we offer. Like that to me, makes a difference and it makes a statement. But I do agree that you know, obviously things are to change. And as we look at like what's working right now, I would say that a lot of things are moving to video. Which not everybody, especially people who might be authors or have written a book and trying to promote it may not feel comfortable getting on video. But it is a powerful tool and there's no two ways about it. If you do feel comfortable talking about it. I know that my daughters often get their book reading recommendations through TikTok these days. And you may be rolling your eyes as you listen to this. You may be sticking your finger down your throat. It doesn't matter. And you may not be writing to that audience. But the bottom line is there is an audience on TikTok and on these other platforms. That want to hear your message, that want to hear your story that are struggling with whatever it is. And taking some of the ideas that you might have put up to in a written social media post or in an email. And explaining them via video is not a bad thing, and you don't have to hire anybody to do this. This is something you can do with the tools that you already have at your disposal. You take a quick video on your iPhone or Android and you upload it to TikTok or reels, which is from Facebook and Instagram. And you can really start to build a relationship. A digital relationship, at least with your audience because they get to know you. In many cases, they want to know more about you. You have to decide how much you're gonna let them in. But when we make a connection with a creator, and that's really what you are, is you're a creator. It makes their creation even more important to us. It resonates at an even deeper level. And it's not a author example, for years if I was gonna buy a piece of jewelry, I would never go to the mall jewelry store. I would go to a place in town that featured local artists and they would often have a card that would explain, how the artist came up with the idea. And what their training was and what inspired them. And then, when I gave this piece of jewelry as a gift, I could tell that story and it added so much context to that gift. I think we can do the same thing now easier using digital marketing. So, whether you're writing fiction or nonfiction, if you're sharing some of your creative journey with people, I think it feels like they own a little bit more. They're part of the process. And they're much more likely to want to keep on hearing from you and buying from you.

Allison: 31:09

We have to break that down'cause that was pure freaking genius. The thing that I wanna point out too is that, on TikTok has book talk. There are book talkers out there, just like on Instagram. We have these influencers out there. But also before your book comes out or even before you get a book deal, you can be so much more efficient just using your phone recording a question and an answer. And putting it on TikTok or YouTube. And you're generating the content without having to be at your computer. You could do it while you're walking, you know, walking the dog or in the car at carpool. People have seen my videos, which I do a lot of times sitting at carpool or waiting for my daughter to get out of some kind of sports practice, which we spend hours at every week. And that's where I do that. There are people my clients like Dr. Mara Einstein, who just wrote, hoodwinked, which is how brands now use the same tactics as cults. Yikes. After she got her book deal, there's a time between the signing of the deal to when the book comes out and she said, I'm gonna start a TikTok. And I was like, oh, that's freaking awesome. Now, she's, I don't know, close to a hundred thousand followers, and that was just two years ago. She's answering questions and addressing things like, why is my, eighth grader being marketed to by colleges. Or why does everybody need to buy that, like shoe whitener for white shoes, and why is it out? So, she's addressing these things and she's getting requests for speaking engagements. Cold calling her through people who are finding her on TikTok. So, that is a genius. And she doesn't have to sit out and write at a laptop like people used to think they had to go into a cave or a cabin in the woods. And go and take a sabbatical. And then, write. Now, if your mind is going, you can turn on your phone and you are carrying a TV studio with you. Nobody needs it to be perfect lighting or perfect makeup or the right whatever. Be real and do your thing and share your knowledge. Yes, that was so good. And that you can turn all of that into social or and be timely. Especially, if something pops up. Rich, what is a popular tactic that's not working anymore?

Rich: 34:05

Anything to do with spamming, whether it's spamming emails, whether it's spamming content to get into the search engines. I think those are things like, it used to be when I first started. I could write a blog post and it would get onto the front page of Google for its specific search terms I was going after in no time and just stay there. But then, as brands started to understand SEO better, it became a much more competitive marketplace. Google changed. Now, you've got the AI overviews all these problems. So it is just everything is a lot tougher these days. That's one thing I want to express to people, that it's not gonna be an overnight success. When I started in 1997, it was a lot easier to make a big splash because people were not on the web as much and there wasn't as much competition. Where now it is, the inboxes are full and the social media feeds are full. The things that aren't working is using the things that were so successful a few years ago. I just had a conversation with a client of mine. He is a robust blogger. He blogs basically once a week on a very niche topic. I won't say what it is right now, but it's you know, it's something that is, he was just crushing it at the search engines. And for his specific topic, he was always, coming up in the top few results. Google shifted and now his topic tends to be something that pulls up shopping results, e-commerce results, and he has basically disappeared from that. He wants things to go back the way they were. But they don't. So, I think you just have to pay attention to what you're actually seeing out there and what's working. As far as I'm concerned, it really just is, it's not that one thing isn't necessarily working outside of, like I said, just trying to generate content to rank well or generate content just to get seen in social. I think those things are not as effective as they used to be. And I would say that it's not about, unless your book is meant to be read by everybody on the planet. That shouldn't be your goal for an audience either. And you can be very successful with a small email list, with a small social media following. As long as it's the right following and the right audience. So, you're not gonna beat the internet on volume. You as an individual cannot create the kind of content that these media publishers can do where they have people hired specifically to write SEO content or specifically to run the best Google Ads. It's just impossible for a single person to make that kind of impact anymore. But what you can do is beat the internet on quality or on perspective. So, I think really honing your message and really figuring out what makes you stand out and your results resonate with a certain audience. That's where you should be putting your time and effort. Because I don't think you can you know, spray and pray as we used to say. I think you really have to be conscientious about who you're trying to reach and how you need to serve them. I hope that was an answer that worked for you, Allison.

Allison: 36:59

Everything you do is magic, Rich. I mean, come on. I think you are the bee's knees and I'm really honored that you're here.

Rich: 37:09

Allison, all you ever have to do is ask.

Allison: 37:11

Oh, come on. Thanks. The thing is, and what I feel called to do is to help people who are already experts in something share their wisdom. It's knowledge until you share it and then it's wisdom. So, the problem is that a lot of people who are experts in their field are busy being experts. And they don't make the decision early enough to expand their reach and help more people'cause they're already big wigs amongst the people who know them. The 200 people they know and they're already keynoting industry association events. But all they're doing is preaching helping the choir. And really what we want is, to sell at a concert venue. I wanna help people who should be well known outside of their industry, break down the barriers and maybe the self-imposed obstacles to do it faster and easier. And you are helping, me, do that. So, I feel like we're on the same wavelength.

Rich: 38:28

And I think for those people if somebody is finding themselves in that situation and wondering how to break out of the 200 people who already know them. The first question I would ask myself, is my message right now going to resonate with anybody outside of this smaller room? Because we do sometimes have to change the way we talk. I'm gonna talk to, we have a weekly marketing meeting here at Flight and I get you know, five or six of my employees in the room and we brainstorm and it's super nerd. You know, we nerd out over analytics and stuff like that. That's not the message that most of my audience wants to hear, at least not right at the beginning. They just wanna know, how come I can't find myself on Google? How come nobody's buying from my website? Or how can I use AI in my marketing? When I talk to that larger audience, my message has to shift because it's not gonna resonate with them. You have to go meet people where they are. So, if you are in that place where you are the top dog in the room of 200, but nobody outside that room who knows who you are, then you have to figure out how can you take your knowledge and turn it into wisdom to use your vernacular. By changing the message so that it adds value to the people outside that room. And that's a difficult thing for a lot of us to do because we are experts in what we do and we know how to talk to the people in the smaller room. But if you wanna be in that concert hall, then you have to really understand the pain points of the people who are gonna go to that concert hall.

Allison: 39:51

So freaking true. And that's why like you said, you start with, what questions are people asking? No one's ever asking. Can you tell me the method you use to improve your AI output? All people usually come with a problem. I can't do this, or I'm having trouble doing that. It's not up to them to figure out the solution or what they need. If they knew what that was, they'd freaking do it. So, yes, always start with where people are. Okay. I'm gonna pivot because we love getting book recommendations from guests. And opening doors to fiction, nonfiction, anything. What's a book you love right now?

Rich: 40:36

Alright. So, there are quite a few that I was thinking of. But I would say that the one that I'm reading right now is book three in a new series. The series, the first book is called The Gatekeeper. And it's Des Limerick is the main character. And basically, he was in the armed forces and he can open any gate, whether it's physical or digital. He can keep it open for as long as his team needs him to, and he can close it and make sure nobody else gets through it like that's his superpower. Which sounds like such a random thing, but the books are so well written and Dez is probably the most charismatic protagonist. I've just about ever read, and I just, I love these books. I'm on the third book right now. It came out recently, it's called Chain Reaction, but gatekeepers, where people should start if they love, you know, if you like reacher, if you like orphan X, which is another series I love. If you like those kind of like people who have some sort of, they're human, but they've got some special skill that just makes them rise above the rest. This is a great series for you.

Allison: 41:34

I love that. I read all of the Vince Flynn books back to back, like all 22 of them. And then, sadly he died at I dunno, book 18. And then, they brought in somebody else to continue the series. Boy, I love a series. I could go through them for sure. Thank you for that. Okay, Rich, bring it home. Before we part, what's one thing you wanna leave people with?

Rich: 42:01

Well, I had an idea, but I feel from today's conversation that I want to say something different. So, I would say that the piece of advice that I'd want people to take away from this is, you really first need to decide where you want to go with all this. And I said a lot of things, you could do this, you could do this. It depends. And that's true. So, I think the first thing you need to think about is if you are in that room where you're the top dog, so to speak, of 200 and you wanna get outside that room, is you really have to learn what those people outside the room need from you. And then create the content that answers their question. Like we talked about in, in many different ways is not dumbing down your content, but instead applying it for needs outside of that room. And that's really where I'd start. And sometimes that comes from asking questions of the people outside of that smaller room and getting that feedback. So, that would probably be where I'd start if I really wanted to more time to my books and to helping people through my writing.

Allison: 42:56

Wise stuff from Rich Brooks, which I never call you Rich. I always call you Rich Brooks. Thank you so much, Rich Brooks. Where can people reach you, find you, listen to you?

Rich: 43:07

If you like podcasts and if you're curious about learning more about digital marketing, definitely check out the Agents of Change. That's my weekly podcast. Been doing it for over a decade. We just put episode 577 to bed. So, definitely been doing that for a while. And if you want to connect with me, I'm always happy to answer questions. I am the Rich Brooks on every platform, but I'm most active on LinkedIn just because it's the only one that's not pissing me off right now.

Allison: 43:32

Hooray, for LinkedIn. Me too. LinkedIn is my play place. This is fantastic. Thank you so much, Rich. For those listening and for you in Carpool, here's what I want you to do. Listen to this again, maybe read through the transcript, which is on your phone. I know you're in carpool. And then, subscribe to the show so it always gets delivered to you because you know that we're here to help. And then do this one more thing. Share it with someone who needs it. Information is not useful unless it's shared. I am saying ask for what you need and share what you know. Now, you know this, so share it. You know somebody who's trying to figure out their website or trying to go bigger or planning their book launch or wants to move into the next phase of their career. Let's get this done and let's get it done together. I will be here all the time next week, the week after. Send me your questions and you know I'm here for you. In the meantime, you are a big effing deal.