How to Use LinkedIn to Build Your Brand Without Playing the Algorithm Game with Kate Paine | Ep. 71

Does LinkedIn feel like a corporate maze or worse, a place where everyone’s shouting but no one’s listening? 

Allison Lane is joined by visibility and personal branding expert Kate Paine to unpack how authors can turn their LinkedIn presence into a powerful personal brand without chasing the algorithm, faking expertise, or posting bland corporate content.

Kate shares what works from optimizing your profile to making short-form video your visibility secret weapon. If you want to attract readers, media, and publishers without becoming a social media robot, this episode is your roadmap.

What You’ll Learn:

• How to craft a keyword-rich LinkedIn headline that helps you show up in search
• What to post (and what to stop posting) to grow your visibility as an author
• Why short-form video is the secret weapon for author branding on LinkedIn

Resources Mentioned:

• Kate Paine’s Website: https://standingoutonline.com/ 
• Connect with Kate Paine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katepaine/ 
• Book Reco: Wild Dark Shore: A Novel by Charlotte McConaghy: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250827951 

Timestamps:

• 01:45 – Why most authors are invisible on LinkedIn
• 08:12 – The exact formula for writing a standout headline
• 14:39 – The 3 content pillars every author should use
• 26:20 – Why short-form video is booming on LinkedIn
• 33:47 – What NOT to do in LinkedIn groups
• 42:50 – The personal story tip that builds connection fast

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Transcript

Kate: 0:00

You need to know how you want to position yourself for the industry expertise that you have in your industry. So, whether you are an entrepreneur or whether you are in the corporate world or the job world everybody has a personal brand. And so, what I say is essentially your personal brand equals your reputation. And your reputation is made up of your values, your integrity, your expertise and experience, and even your influence.

Allison: 0:49

Welcome back to the Author's Edge and I am your host, Allison Lane. I am here as your literary Sherpa letting you know that visibility and discoverability and that dreaded word platform, are available to you, and you don't need to wait, and you don't need to hope that people share your post in hopes that suddenly your social platform will go viral and suddenly you'll have 10,000 or 50,000 followers. That's not how things work. We have to be deliberate about all of our growth and about our strategy, so we know where we're going. And if you've ever shared your LinkedIn profile thinking, I hope that people follow me. You are inviting them to something that's super generic follow me on LinkedIn. People don't know what they're going to get. When you say something like that, it's like saying, give me a call or let me know if you need anything. It is an empty request, an empty offer. So, I know that I'm underscoring the problem is that nobody knows what to post if you are wondering, but what do I post or I haven't been posting because I don't want to seem like I'm too much, or I think too much of myself. You don't want to sound like everybody else or you afraid of, first of all, you're a grownup, so you don't have to be afraid. But you are uncertain how sharing a message that's maybe outside of your corporate role, what people will think. There's a way for you to feel real and actually be real and be respected. The whole gamut. Now, Kate Paine is here to tell us exactly how to do that because she is helped entrepreneurs and thought leaders and authors find their story so that they know what to be posting in a way that builds their visibility, which all comes back to them. You. If you are not, you can't just put out messages and not own them. And that leads to a dreaded marketing jargon, your personal brand, which people hate that. But it is, it's like what do you stand for? What are you going to be posting? If it's all different all the time, nobody's going to know what to lean in for. So, you get to decide, and that's the hardest thing. Kate, please tell us how people can figure out what their personal brand is and why is that so hard?

Kate: 3:34

It's a great question, Allison. When you think about your personal brand, I'm going to invite your listeners to sort of reframe this a little bit. So the personal brand is a thing, and I'll answer that part in the question. But when you are presenting yourself on a channel like LinkedIn, by way of your LinkedIn personal profile, we're talking personal profile here, not company page. You need to understand what you stand for. You need to know how you want to position yourself for the industry expertise that you have in your industry. So, whether you are an entrepreneur or whether you are in the corporate world or the job world everybody has a personal brand. And so, what I say is essentially your personal brand equals your reputation. And your reputation is made up of your values, your integrity, your expertise and experience, and even your influence. So, when you think about all those things and you look in the mirror a different way to see that about yourself. Then you start to realize people come to me for this skillset that I have. People see me as a go-to resource for this knowledge that I have about this topic. And those are the kinds of things that actually define your personal brand. But you also want to show the human side of you because people connect with people. We hear this all the time. People connect, want to do business with people, not logos, right? So, in this day and age with AI and all of the noise on social media, when you take the time, and this does take some time, when you take the time to really optimize your profile and personalize it a bit, and from a personal standpoint aligned with what you do, you're not just pulling personal things out of the air. It needs to be in alignment. Then, you are setting yourself up for success. You're differentiating yourself from the competition, so to speak, or how other people do things on LinkedIn. So, understanding how you want to position yourself for the knowledge you want to share. And understanding your personal brand is really important as you tackle, like optimizing your profile.

Allison: 5:24

Okay, let's dig into that. Okay. Because in the olden days of social media, your profile was either super boring, like marketing manager at cookie cutter. Yeah, nobody wants to know what your job title is. Right. Keep it to yourself. Right. Or it was something ridiculous like human storyteller, and what is that? It was just made up like brand ambassador. What does that mean to me? Total bologna. Plus it would be a list of your interests. Like coffee lover. Yeah. Into daffodils. But this is not a dating profile. And also that's a terrible dating profile. So, now what should people be putting at the very least?

Kate: 6:11

In their headline, in their

Allison: 6:12

profile, so that their profile stands out.

Kate: 6:15

Okay. So, at the top of your LinkedIn personal profile, there's your name field, and then under that is where a lot of people just put their job title. It's called LinkedIn, calls it the headline field. The headline, and you have 220 characters for that. So, you actually have some pretty decent digital real estate there. So one thing you want to really pay attention to for that headline is you don't necessarily put your job title. Think about like you've got to do some research into what are your industry keywords for the work that you do. So for example, for me, on my profile, I don't put. CEO and founder of standing out online, I put LinkedIn profile coach or LinkedIn profile optimization. So, if someone goes online to Google or LinkedIn search, searching for someone like you, if they don't have your name, you want to make it more likely for you to show up in a targeted search result, not a generic one. So if I just said. LinkedIn marketing, no one's going to search for that because they know they're going to get a gazillion results. So LinkedIn profile optimization is more targeted. So think about that for what you do. And like offline, make a list of a few keywords that describe the work that you do that are industry friendly. Then go test them on Google. Test them in ai. If you use chat, GPT and then create a headline that tells a mini story. This is specific to LinkedIn. So, put in the stuff that you do, put in the help that you, an outcome that you provide. And then if you want to, this is one place you can put something a little quirky in. Like I have paddleboard fanatic and it's just one little thing so that because then I'm different. But I'm also showing a little personality and that little quirky thing you put could be an icebreaker to a conversation. Like it could be, oh, I love to paddleboard too. If they reach out to you for discovery call or whatever.

Allison: 7:53

It shows that you're right, a real person.

Kate: 7:56

Right? So it's not the coffee. I love daffodils. I'm also a paddleboard fan. Keep this professional and throw in a little personality. It's like you want to be professional with some personality. It's not fluff. There's a difference. So the headline's really important. How try to aim for at least having two or three tested industry keywords to make it more likely for you to show up. And then in the rest of your profile sections, like the, about the experience. Make sure that you bring in some of those industry keywords to into the narrative because the algorithm recognizes that as well. So you want to make sure you're sprinkling some of those keywords, those industry keywords in there, but you want it to still come across in an organic way. You don't just keyword stuff. LinkedIn hates that. People used to just put all these little sort of keyword terms at the end of their about section. And now you want to incorporate them into the narrative so that it reads smoothly.

Allison: 8:49

I think people used to think that LinkedIn, and probably people still do. LinkedIn is not your digital resume. Correct. It's like a terrible way to really use LinkedIn, although most people do. So if you,

Kate: 9:04

I want you to see it as a digital footprint. Yes. See this as a digital footprint or a digital handshake even. There's a friend of mine who's been in the LinkedIn world a long time Vivica von Rosen. She's not doing the LinkedIn stuff anymore, but she coined this great phrase, be a resource, not a resume by way of your LinkedIn profile. And I agree with it a hundred percent. Yes, you want to put out what you know how to do, but if you come across like a bio or like a resume, that's generic and that's what everybody's doing. because they don't know any better. So, there's a way that you can show love to your profile and come across in a way that is helpful. I always say you want it to be all about you, but it's not all about you. For example, you know the about section, for example, who you are, what you do, and an outcome you provide. Those are the three part, that's my three part recipe. End with here's how I help, here's an outcome so that people are like, oh, that's what's in it for me. And not instead of just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Allison: 9:57

Right? I don't want you have the blah wants to do the like mental gymnastics to be like, so they do this. So what does that mean to me? What if you know how people can benefit? Don't make them do the. The math Exactly to interpret that, because no one actually, you're also trying to build a relationship ever does it.

Kate: 10:16

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you're also trying to build a connection slash relationship. Not, you might want the LinkedIn connection, but you want to build the connection as a relationship. That is just good old fashioned marketing and it hasn't changed. It's just so many people think they've got to do everything fast and quick and AI and AI has its place but you still have to like, show your personality. People really want to see the human side of you as it relates to the professional. You know what I mean? So, that's part of why the personal brand matters.

Allison: 10:45

And it's not you could be a marketing manager somewhere, or assistant or associate professor, but you are also maybe have a podcast. So that automatically means that your headline doesn't need to say associate professor. It could be just relevant to the topic. Yeah. But really gets boring when it's just you can incorporate your background sales optimization ugh.

Kate: 11:15

Yeah. You can incorporate your background or your recurrent work into your narrative. But the thing is, people are going to scroll down to your experience section. So if you are an associate professor, there's going to be a thing there. The university you're at with these associate, and then you put the blurb in about you as a professor. That's the nitty gritty of what you do. Your about section should be the 30,000 foot view of who you are, what you do, how you help to interest people into wanting to go into the rest of your profile and learn more about you.

Allison: 11:40

What's your advice about what to post? Way too many people are posting either generic, corporate propaganda. You know, X company, we are proud to say that we are now serving this client. That's a huge drop. But oftentimes people don't post because they don't know exactly how to add value. And they're not given from their employer or their association a clarity on how they could really become like a standout. And so, this is why you have a job to help people. So what's the first step in helping them figure out What should I be posting about?

Kate: 12:24

Okay. It's a great question. This is probably one of the most asked questions I get and about LinkedIn. The reason people are never sure what to post on LinkedIn is because they're not sure what the vibe is. You know what I mean? They know what to do on Facebook or Instagram and they know what to do on TikTok or whatever other channels they're using. Like they know how to do that. But when they go to LinkedIn, they know it's a little different because it's professional or it's business. And even though that's true, you can still create content that is helpful to your readers, to the people that follow you or who are connected to you. So, first of all, just give yourself a little grace on that and then go, okay, so if I've been doing the boring old stuff, I really shouldn't be doing the boring old stuff. That doesn't mean that the topic you want to talk about has to be presented in a boring way. Maybe you talk about that topic in a short form video because short form video is now the top content on LinkedIn right now, this year. So a real type of thing. So, if you're already producing some of this type of content somewhere, repurpose it, but with a different caption over on LinkedIn, tie it into the industry or the on trend point that's in the news right now about that topic or whatever. Tie it all together and showcase it in a way that maybe is a little unexpected. And so that the other thing is too, that I tell people too, is when you're thinking about your content strategy for LinkedIn, figure out what your three or four content pillars are. So, it might be educational, like meaning informing people but not in a dry way. And then there's a whole ton of content topics that fall into that. Maybe another pillar con of content is behind the scenes. People love behind the scenes, even in a work environment, show us what's going on in the background. People love to see that. And it's unexpected. Maybe it's other people's content. I call that OPC. So, where I follow people in an industry and I really like their blog or I like their post or whatever, and I make a point of sharing their content with my thought leadership. Very little of what you post on LinkedIn should be promotional about you like 10%. So, if you only post when you're going to have a webinar or you're going to a trade show, or you're going to a networking event, that's the only time you're posting. People are just going to swipe on by. So think about how you can come across with your own personality, do a video where you interview someone else. I use this kind of content like you're doing Allison. I post this stuff with my podcast and that's some of my content. So yeah, people love to listen to that stuff.

Allison: 14:50

Even right now, I'm going to take a picture of us like, and that is going to be, yeah. Candid. Yes. Nobody needs it to be super polished. Nope. People know that this picture that you're going to end up seeing on Yeah. LinkedIn. It's going to be like a little bit turned a little because I don't care. Yeah. I think that you are amazing and you are helping people understand that this is an opportunity and also all your expertise that you're keeping to yourself helps No one.

Kate: 15:18

Exactly. Exactly. Why hide your light? And then people will say to me, when I just said like what I just said, but I don't want to come across as braggy or salesy. And I'm like, you know what? I get it. I don't either. So, that's why if you interview someone else or you share other people's content with your thought leadership, your opinion, and it doesn't have to be a mean thing, and it doesn't have to be like the best thing, like just share. Like I really liked it when Allison mentioned, da Da. I really resonated that because share what about it you like, not just great article or great show. So engage people a little bit. That's really where the kind of the meat is. And if you not be afraid to show some personality, that's what people are going to connect with. And the thing is about that is it makes people remember you and it makes you unforgettable. And I don't mean like the song, but it's because you're doing something a little different. I think people look at what everybody else is doing on LinkedIn and they think that's the way it should be done. And that's not necessarily the case. I will give you an example. People like a financial advisor for example they have to be careful for how they come across because they're in a regulated industry. And they have to watch. What they say because of the whole SEC regulations and all of that. But most other people in industries can still be, you can be your professional self with some personality, with some flare.

Allison: 16:38

So, let's talk about a specific people you follow who are sharing with their voice us, but they're avoiding the cringe. Like whether it's in marketing or I think people forget that you can look outside your industry too. Exactly. Exactly. By all means. Yes. So who are some of the people, I hate to say thought leaders because that's not a job title. I don't love the term thought leaders, but it does illustrate a point. But who are the standout voices that you're seeing that you consistently love their content?

Kate: 17:16

Okay. There's one of them is Mark Schaeffer, S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R. He's in the digital marketing world. He's written a bunch of books. One of my favorite books that he wrote is called Known and it's about your personal brand. And I've met Mark a few times, so I've actually met him at Rich Brooks Agents of Change event when he was a keynote speaker. But it's follow him on all the channels. Sign up for his newsletter, his e-newsletter, his e-newsletters, subscription. It's just full jam packed, full of great stuff. And he's a very forward thinking guy. He sees things and trends before they happen. He has a lot of really interesting thoughts about ai. The other person I follow from a LinkedIn standpoint is a gentleman from the Netherlands. His name is Richard Vander Blom. VAN space, DER space BLOM, Richard Vander Blom. And while he's Danish, he speaks English well. But he is a real data geek. And he does these annual not surveys, but reports on the LinkedIn algorithm based on research he's done. Because let's face it, no channel will ever reveal its algorithm because it's their secret sauce. But there's people who can go and test and he tests over a six month period for all kinds of things and then puts out a report every year. So I follow him. Do I agree with everything he says? No, I don't. But I really respect and admire what he learns about the algorithm. And then I can go and test it on my own. And I usually find Yep, that's true. It's just, you've got to be open to other people, even from a contrarian place. Like you don't always have to be somebody's, yes, man. And if you want to be contrarian and show your leadership, your thought leadership on something, on a topic in a post, right. Just be respectful. You don't have to be like, oh, this person doesn't know what they're talking about you know. That's happening on all the other channels on LinkedIn. You could be like, while I really appreciate what this person said about this and this, there's one point here that I disagree with because when I do this, I do it this way. And that doesn't, I'm not bashing the person. I'm actually sharing my opinion. I'm being myself, and I'm showing another way to look at something. So to me, that's a helpful way of presenting an opinion without just dissing somebody.

Allison: 19:22

Yeah. I want to come back to the video for a second. So the short video, there are all kinds of formats, all kinds of video on LinkedIn. Yes. So it used to be that the video had to be landscape, horizontal. Yeah. Landscape. And now can you give us a little bit about the shape and then captions? No captions, and then headline. No headline.

Kate: 19:45

So if you're doing a short form video, like a reel, so most people know what a reel is on any channel. You can use those on LinkedIn. You upload it, it's not like Facebook where you can go on your phone and record and then put it off at a Facebook Live. It's not like that. So you can still record your. Self in a vertical video format on your phone. And then maybe you want to put it into one of those apps where make sure there's captions. You should absolutely have captions on LinkedIn because a lot of people look at LinkedIn with their audio off. because a lot of people are in an office setting or something like that. So having some kind of a thing at the top. No. But keeping it about, 90 seconds is the length for Instagram. So, if you have a short form video and you upload it as like a movie file or an MP four, you can actually have it be no longer than 10 minutes. I wouldn't suggest you do it short form video called short form video because it's under two minutes usually. If you upload a native video, let's say like for your show right here, Allison, you upload this, it's going to upload it in this horizontal format. In this interview format. And that's going to be either it's together, if it's your YouTube link, the length doesn't matter if you're posting the YouTube link so that people can see the whole show. If you were just going to take a little snippet of it, anytime you upload a native video, like a native video file, it cannot be longer than 10 minutes. That's a LinkedIn thing. Even if it's 10 minutes in one second, LinkedIn won't let you upload it. But putting links to a YouTube or a Vimeo or website or whatever like that, you don't have to worry about the length because it's a link. Okay. Did that answer your question?

Allison: 21:21

Yes.

Kate: 21:21

Okay.

Allison: 21:22

I've seen that the short form video on LinkedIn is booming and I think people are interested because what I think I understand, and you need to correct me, is that LinkedIn is showing your videos to people who don't already follow you. Correct. Already connected. And so that's the big challenge, is how do you actually grow?

Kate: 21:43

That is the big challenge. It's hard to get eyes on your content on LinkedIn. And the one thing I like about LinkedIn, the company is that they still have human eyes on content. Yes, they have an algorithm. Yes, they have some other things, but they really, there's truly, there's like editors who pay attention to content. So the number one thing that LinkedIn now looks for, this came out in Richard Vander Baum's recent report, is you need to have compelling content. Long form content does well on LinkedIn. I always set recommend though. Don't just do long form content, do short, medium, and long, mix it up. That's just mixing it up is always a good strategy. Text posts, video posts, image posts, mix it up. Don't just do one type and do the same.

Allison: 22:27

So how do you grow, so you're saying a variety of posts.

Kate: 22:30

So having compelling, unique content is one thing. Now this is the hard part. What LinkedIn's algorithm looks for is that if people start to engage with your content within the first one to two hours of publishing that post, they see that as something that's interested and they'll serve it up more even to other people who don't connect with you. But it's hard. Like how do you know they're going to connect? So, then what ended up happening the last few years, and this goes against LinkedIn's terms of service, and they shut people down for this, people started forming what were called pods. So, they would have a pod with 15 people in it, in LinkedIn, a private message and say, Hey, I just posted about this. Please go in and comment right now. Yeah, that's gaming LinkedIn's system. LinkedIn caught on. And now if you do a pod or they find out if they can see that's happening, they will actually shut your profile down for good without warning. So don't be a part of a pod. Now, if I was to reach out to you, Allison, like I did something about a book for a friend and I thought you'd be interested, I might shoot you a message and say, Hey Allison my friend just did this really cool post on this book, which I think you'd you might want to take a look at it and maybe you want to comment. That's just let's help lift this person up by getting more eyes on their stuff. So, you can't predict how people are going to react, or when they're going to react or comment on your stuff within one to two hours. So that's where I go back to the foundational piece. Be thoughtful and compelling about your content. Try to do things differently than you have been. If what you've been doing has been eh, and you're not getting much, change it up. Figure out a new way to do it. Write about it differently. Take a different angle. Tell stories. Real stories. Use many case studies. Use an experience you had with a client. You talk about a client outcome, a success story. When you use stories in your content about things that happen with you, to you, by you, then you're not being salesy because you're sharing a story and everybody loves stories. So those are the kinds of different ways to really get eyes on your content. If you think you want to try to go viral on LinkedIn, good luck with that. That should never be your goal anyway. Your goal for your content should be to be of service, be of help, be of value. If you're going for the viral video, that just doesn't really happen on LinkedIn. And if it does, it's not because somebody planned it. You can't plan a viral video.

Allison: 24:47

Yeah. And even when a video goes viral, that doesn't necessarily convert to Exactly. Does that make the cash registering and all it means is that you got views. Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't even convert to engagement.

Kate: 25:00

Think about the long game. You're building relationships, you're getting people to trust you. And I've been doing this a long time. Whenever I put out a webinar and I usually do like a webinar a quarter, I don't overload people. My show up rate is amazing because people see me on a consistent basis all the time. I've built trust with these people. And they know if they come to one of my events. I had a webinar yesterday and we keep track of all the data on the backend. And when we can see through our CRM, how many of my events over the last four or five years they've attended a lot. And that's really like cool and unexpected, but that's happened because I'm consistent and I don't overdo it, but I also don't hide. So you just have to find a groove. Do I make mistakes? Absolutely.

Allison: 25:44

I love that tip about the quarterly webinar. I love to, even when I'm doing a LinkedIn event I might also post it on Eventbrite. Yeah. And on Facebook. Absolutely. because I want people to have access to information that's hard to figure out or hard to find out. And plus it's fun for me. I love.

Kate: 26:08

You're amplifying your reach, Allison. That's good. Some people think that they have to do all of the things and you don't. If you do push yourself a little bit, do something maybe you haven't done. Try it, see if it works. And it probably will work. And if it does, it'll be like, okay, I'm good. I'm going to do it here and here. Good. Because if you don't do it at all, then you're not getting your word out there.

Allison: 26:27

You're just lamenting. Yep. For sure. Yep. I spend almost all my time on LinkedIn and nothing is as motivating and empowering as deleting a social profile. Which I had such joy doing in the last year of it's just like cutting off a dead limb. Like If you know it's still there and it's still taking up mind space, but you never go to that social profile, then you don't need it. Let it go. Exactly. And then what's left is you get to focus on, which is so much fun for me. But I'm still in a lot of groups tell me how I can actually use groups to really engage because I'm in a lot of them, but sometimes I can see that a group might be ginormous, but it's all promotional baloney. Or it might be smaller, but people only share their like problems, like there doesn't, so how do you use groups to your advantage?

Kate: 27:27

I'm wary of LinkedIn groups in general. About six years ago or so. The group experience up until then was phenomenal. Yes. You could have an admin, you could have people control it, and then all of a sudden LinkedIn changed its user interface and they changed the entire group experience and they've never gone back to it. And what happened is a lot of the really healthy community groups that were there all bailed because it was crickets and they couldn't even be an admin even though they were technically an admin. It just, everybody went away. And then, what everybody did is they went over to Facebook to create Facebook groups because it was an easier experience we always thought, that's such a shame. Here we are all on LinkedIn. LinkedIn used to have a great group experience. We all reached out to LinkedIn and said, what the heck have you done? Then, they keep saying they're making it better and the group experience is a little better. But it's not what it used to be. So, I am wary of groups. I still belong to a few. I don't think I ever even see content from them unless I actively go seek it. I'll tell you what I use groups for is for my community things. So, if I'm teaching a group program or a one-to-one on something with LinkedIn, then with my group program, I will create a group of the 10 people that are in the community. Okay. And I will use it instead of a Facebook group or Slack, because it's a short term group program. So, we use the group experience there, and that works fine. And if you want to invite more people, you can. But I have different groups. I create a vibe in a community with each one. And I don't know if you've ever, I'm sure you've been in a group program. And then if somebody else comes in and somebody's new, it's not that you don't like them, it's just you liked your little. Group the way it was, and you're right protective of it. So whenever I start a new group program, I start a new LinkedIn group and yeah, maybe at some point after I've done these four for a year, then maybe I'll say, Hey, do you guys want to come into a larger group? because you've all been through the course. Now we can have this bigger community and I'll help in each other. So I've got a strategy with the group experience on LinkedIn. Whenever I get invited to a group. It depends on who's inviting me. Like if Rich Brooks or you reached out and you were doing a group I'd joined because I know you. You know what I mean? And I respect you and I know your jam. But most of the time I'd say I don't accept them. I don't even accept them all on Facebook. I just, I'll never work.

Allison: 29:36

I don't think I ever see an invitation for a group on LinkedIn.

Kate: 29:40

I do sometimes it shows up in the where you get your invitation requests or connection, investor newsletter requests. Sometimes I do. It's just basically it's been crickets and a lot of LinkedIn experts used to say, don't even bother with the group experience there. So, it's completely personal. But I would just be more like really like inner circle if you're going to do a group thing versus a giant group where you're trying to get hundreds and hundred people. I just think a lot of people are shy away from the group's experience on LinkedIn until they change it. Back to how used to be.

Allison: 30:09

This is such good news because I cannot wait to go into my LinkedIn profile. I think I'm in over 200 groups. Yeah. Because as you accrue them, you don't go back to see what's there and feels good to clean out that closet.

Kate: 30:22

And then I get some of the spam I get in my inbox. It'll say, I look at the person sometimes if they're in my industry, I'll take a look to see who's acts. But then I'll be like, we're in four groups together. I'm like, I haven't done a darn thing in any of those groups. And now I'm thinking going, now you're spamming people. So I think a lot of people joined groups or joined them years ago thinking that they then had the entree to just go and spam people with information. And that's what it's become. So I'd be leery, do a little digging for a couple minutes. Use your filters, your personal filters about is this person in my industry, is this something that could be helpful? When's the last time somebody posted in that group? If it was like more than three or six months ago, I'd steer clear. Yeah, there's no activity there. Use your little personal judgment on decisions. But I'd say I don't want to say across the board, don't do it, but just maybe use the experience more judiciously.

Allison: 31:08

Mm-hmm. Well, no, this is so, i'm so glad. Listen, I've been on LinkedIn and doing, like back when I was leading PR for Unilever and all the other sports bees and Sodexo. I was training the sales team and the HR team of you want to use LinkedIn as a sales tool, your profile needs to be updated. Exactly. I mean, these are busy people and they never think to say oh, if I'm going to invite people over to my house, maybe I'm going to make sure that the front door doesn't stick.

Kate: 31:44

Exactly. And that the living room's clean.

Allison: 31:47

And that I'm there when they arrive. Yes. That's the craziest thing is hit me up on LinkedIn and you never go to LinkedIn. No. You have to be there to open the door and For sure. And I would always say, bring your laptop to the meeting. We're all going to put our pictures, we're going to have a populated profile. Yep, yep. And here's how, here are some rules to posting for every one post about the company. You've got to have seven about something else. Yes. because you are of service. Exactly. Like what? Don't be a selfish social user, right? because and they never use their banner. So what should people put in their banner?

Kate: 32:29

In the banner that another great question. So, if you whether you work for a company, like if you work in a, like a upper level management, senior leadership role or C level role. And if you want to use your personal profile as a flag for the company that you represent, then maybe you want to use some branding and create a background banner image just to look professional. Maybe you're in a picture doing something, working with a client or something like that. Then you might want to do that. But also ask yourself, do I really want to be selling or spotlighting the place I work? So, if you want it to just personalize it, maybe if it's that interesting little quirky thing about you. Like when I talked about me putting down paddleboard, fanatic, then maybe if I was working in a corporation, maybe I'd put an image of me, paddleboarding with dolphins swimming around me or something, yeah. And put some copy on it, created in Canva, not just a picture, put a quote up about something that means something to you so people can see your value. And it's a little personality. That's just one idea. Not a lot of people would do that, but that's one idea. But if you own your own business and or you are your own brand. Then you absolutely want to make a branded background image. And you can do this in Canva. Use your logo, use a real picture of you in real life doing something. Have it be different than the photo in your profile photo. And maybe put even though it's not clickable, put your website in there because anybody who's beyond a second level connection, if they arrive on your profile, they actually can't see what you put in your contact info. They can't see your email. It's a new privacy thing that LinkedIn's put in place. So like, put a info at email in your banner or a website so that if, even though they can't click on it, at least if they want to try to find you, you've made it user friendly for them to discover you on offline, so to speak. Yeah, so think about, what that looks like and don't have it be too busy. Have it be clean. Good photo. Glance, bold text. Yeah. Limited text, but helpful.

Allison: 34:22

Okay. I feel like I need to take your course because it's even though I've been telling people, that like cobbler's children run barefoot everywhere, right? Yes. And I am constantly zing my profile. And then, even my headline. Yep. I'm my publishing expert, my book coach, I'm an author coach, and I'm like, you know what? People don't search for things that are super duper niche specific. They search for what their problem is or what they need.

Kate: 34:53

Let me ask you this, Allison. When you say you're a book coach, what typically are the types of books that you work on with your clients? What's your niche?

Allison: 35:00

Nonfiction and memoir.

Kate: 35:02

So I would put like nonfiction book coach in your headline. So book coach is generic.

Allison: 35:09

It is totally generic. It's like saying editor or manager. It's so generic. The thing is, I also work with novelists on book launches. So if you want a book deal, I have a book deal blueprint and that includes how to pitch. Well, like the agents and the

Kate: 35:26

You have to book proposals.

Allison: 35:28

Oh yeah.

Kate: 35:28

Yeah. So that's something else you could put in your headline. Yeah. Book proposal writer, something like that. You want to think of these things that people would search for more niche because people are smart now. People know, if they're going to look up a certain type of ice cream, oh, I had ice cream at this restaurant. They're not going to go into Google and type in ice cream. They're going to get a gazillion results. But if they had a certain flavor and they're not sure of the brand, they're going to describe it in Google. People know now that if they want to get a more immediate targeted search result, they're going to put in the keywords to help them get to that point. And that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying you need to go crazy on this, and I don't mean you but your listeners but be thoughtful about this. Put a little time into doing some industry keyword research so that you are more discoverable online.

Allison: 36:11

Yeah. And then avoid keyword stuffing. I used to include like book proposal. But most people I work with have never heard of a book proposal. They just want to know, how do I find a publisher? So the key, the long tail keyword is find a publisher. Find an agent. Yeah. That's what people search.

Kate: 36:29

Put those in there, but in your narrative, in your about section or in the experience section about you as a book coach, that's where you can write organically, like something that you read, like a paragraph about what you do that way, and that's where it would naturally occur. But it also is you're narrating to the reader as you would in real life. And oh, by the way, bonus, it happens to be a keyword or a keyword phrase, or a long tail keyword, so.

Allison: 36:52

Right. This is a personal question, so I might actually edit this out, so we never know, but because I help experts get book deals, but in terms of book launches, I also work with fiction writers. Okay. And all my clients become award winners and bestsellers. It's just, this is the publicist in me is just, I know how to do this. Yes. So I'm always struggling with, do I put nonfiction? Do I not put, do I want to open it up? Because then people will automatically like remove themselves, think oh, now I have, she doesn't do that. She does.

Kate: 37:30

Yes. So in your headline, I would pick two or three things that you primarily want to be known for. Then when you get down into like your about section or into the narrative for your experience section, that's where you can talk about, and not only do I work with people who want to do memoirs and nonfiction, but I also work with people who are novelists or fiction writers and book launches. And that's where you can talk about the nitty gritty of what else you do. So, if anybody digs in deeper, so it's sometimes it's almost like you want to say the one or two things that are going to get people's attention and pull them in. And then when they go down a little further or they talk to you in person. Then you already know how you're going to talk about. Whoa. And I also do this, I also provide this service. Okay, so instead of having it all out there right off the bat. It's like too much information right front. And then people can find it. You can strategically place it in other places of your profile, which is exactly how I work things with my clients. For example, there's a feature, there's a section you can add on LinkedIn called publications. There's publications. So if you're a writer, you can, you could put whether you're a blog writer or a newsletter writer or book, an author, you can have this like library and archive of things in your publications. There's another section you can add called projects and Projects is more corporate oriented. But what I did with projects, since I don't work in a corporate setting, I took all of my speaking events and I've put all my top names, speaking events because it's a project. But all of my stuff on my projects are all the stages I've spoken on virtual and online. That's so

Allison: 38:56

cool.

Kate: 38:56

And then I have a little place to put a blurb. So I strategically used it for that. And I've gotten speaking gigs because I've done that. Even though in my experience section, I talk about myself as a speaker. I provide my speaker demo video and my speaker one sheet. So, I'm spreading out that stuff strategically instead of just saying I'm a speaker, hire me.

Allison: 39:17

Because there's no telling what someone's going to land on.

Kate: 39:19

And you don't know where they're going to land. Everybody assumes they're going to read top to bottom, every word people scan. But that's why if your narrative is different and you're using things about yourself and showing some personality and using story that's going to make you memorable, and then people are going to want to keep reading and learn more. What else she got?

Allison: 39:38

Yeah. I have a couple more questions because I've been seeing on LinkedIn these posts that are formatted, they're long form, there are a lot of spaces between sentences. They're very storytelling. Yep. And yet they somehow very appropriately still lead to, and if you want to work with me, and they're super clever, cleverly written, but generally the people who post those sort always post that sort of thing. Yeah. And when I've looked at the format and maybe shoved it into ChatGPT and said, Hey, I have a custom GPT that writes like me only with my words. Yep. But it just, it seems so counterintuitive to stop people from their scrolls with the first line, like Jay Schwedelson would say, in the first line you need to say who this is for. Because you can't use your first line for throat clearing because it won't stop people. So when you see these types of different post structures, what is your take on that long form structure?

Kate: 40:56

As a former journalist, I still believe in a good lead. So, I still think that your first sentence should be something that draws people in. Then in the second graph, you can always give it context or something like that, but hook them in. Grab them in, captivate them. So, I believe in that. I do like the idea of short paragraphs with a lot of white space beyond the traditional paragraph like we were taught in school, and mostly because 65% of people look at LinkedIn on an app. And so, from a standpoint of easy ease to read, people don't want to see dense, heavy text in a paragraph block. They'll just scroll on by. So that's the strategy behind why people are doing that. And I do it too. And so I do, sometimes I want to isolate a sentence because I want to emphasize a point, and maybe it's pithy, I pay attention to that. As far as calls to action at the end, the whole, what are your thoughts? Nobody does that anymore. It's dated. Don't ask that. If you want to ask some kind of a call to action, have it be really pointed and interesting, that might be a real conversation starter and do it every now and then. Don't put something, a; and if you want to work with me, because you've got them and then all of a sudden you're being salesy. There's ways to do it. There's times to do it. It's like you got to read the room. But don't make that a standard practice in your regular posting. If you want to provide value, leave them with a thought that makes them go makes them think. Maybe it creates conversation, but don't ask. Nobody does it anymore. It's just dry.

Allison: 42:20

Yeah. It's really, it's a super turnoff.

Kate: 42:22

Yeah.

Allison: 42:23

It's like saying when people reach out to you and say Hey, let's catch up. What's going on with you? That's not a catch up. Now it's my responsibility to give you a digital catch up. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like homework.

Kate: 42:35

I know, right.

Allison: 42:36

I don't love that. I don't answer those, I just say, if you want to catch up, here's a link and let's actually catch up and we'll chat. Or when do you want to talk for the love of Pete? Okay, let's pivot because I want to know what you're reading.

Kate: 42:49

Okay, great. Alright, so I just finished the most phenomenal book. It's called Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy, I think is she's an Australian author. And it was an incredible book. It's a novel, it takes place on an island between like Australia and the Antarctic. And it's based on Macquarie Island, but it's not Macquarie Island. And there's this family that lives there that takes care of the research center there. Because what they do is they've, over the years, they have been preserving seeds from all over so that if climate change makes something go extinct, that's like a seed bank and this, that's a real thing. Yes. But it's about the father and his children that live there and the experiences they have. And there's a lot of things that happen. And so it's a really great familial story, the description about the environment. because it's rough. Like on a warm, sunny day, it might hit 30. And the seas and the seals that live there. And that's true on Macquarie Island, there's a huge colony of seals and penguins and they talk about that. So, it's just it's really interesting. It's environmental, it's familial and the relationships between all the, what goes on there and everything. It was just I couldn't put it down.

Allison: 44:03

Oh, I'm going to get it. We'll make sure that the link is in the show notes too. Yes.

Kate: 44:07

Yep. Wild Dark Shore, Charlotte McConaghy, how she pronounced it, but it's like the last, it's like GHY ending, but she pronounced the G.

Allison: 44:15

With a G okay. We'll have a link to your LinkedIn profile and even on your LinkedIn profile, people can book a chitchat with you, right?

Kate: 44:24

Yeah. I think it's going to be in the show notes. There should be a link to a 30 minute free discovery call with me. So, if you want to talk about your personal brand development or your LinkedIn strategy or whatever, I'm happy to talk to you if you're interested in knowing how I might be able to work with you. If that's something you want to talk about, we can do that too, but I'm happy to just answer some questions.

Allison: 44:41

Oh, awesome. Okay. All of that will be in the show notes. Now, before we call this podcast complete, what is one thing that you want people to do today? What can they do today to finally feel confident about showing up in LinkedIn?

Kate: 44:58

We talked about the importance of the keywords in the headline, so I'd really show some love to your headline. The other thing I would invite you to think about is thinking about your own personal story or your slice of life story. It's like your story nugget. So, if you go over to my profile and you see how I write at the very beginning, my first sentence is I was an avid news junkie in seventh grade, and I go into how I wanted to be back in the late eighties when I was in college. I wanted to be a female broadcast journalist. They were few at the time. So, I said I wanted to be the next Diane Sawyer. And then I want go into my experience as an intern at CBS News. And then I segue into today. Now, I'm a storyteller working with entrepreneurs who wanted blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So think about your little story nugget and how you can incorporate that into the about section of your profile and how it can show a little bit about you so people can make a connection, but also ties into what you do now so that it's relevant and aligned.

Allison: 45:51

That's such good advice. I don't think that people think enough about sharing a little bit about how you got there, but making sure that it ties in. It has to tie in that it's relevant, right. Because people don't want a chronological play by play.

Kate: 46:06

Nope. they don't want the bio. Your bio has its place for certain things. Your bio has a place for a book being introduced on stage, but in your LinkedIn profile, make it count. And also you have 2,600 characters for the about section. It's approximately 500 words ish. Use all of that digital real estate. LinkedIn keeps expanding it, which tells me they want you to use all that digital real estate. And the more you use, the more they're going to serve you up. So in search results. Don't short take shortcuts on LinkedIn.

Allison: 46:34

All the things are there. Yeah. They really have. So they spend so much time putting, steps in place to share what really works. Yes. And if you're not using all the options, then it's like you're not putting gas in the tank.

Kate: 46:52

Exactly what the heck. LinkedIn gives you a ton of sections. You can add the ones that are relevant. Don't just add them to add them, add the ones that are relevant. But the more tools you take advantage of that they provide you, the more they're going to search you, serve you up, and search results because they can see that you're utilizing the features that they've provided. If you just do the basic and you just make a like two sentence about section and call it a day, and you have your only job that you've, in right now, and you never show nobody's going to see anything there that adds value. It's just going to be like, scroll on by.

Allison: 47:21

And your lack of 15 minute attention to your LinkedIn profile is, it's really just wasted opportunity because you were a big effing deal. Exactly. No one's going to, it's no one else's job to figure out how your expertise can relate and help more people. Right. It's on you.

Kate: 47:41

In this day and age, people search people. So if they meet you, and I don't mean like in a stocky, creepy way. People meet you somehow, some way they read something you've written, they see a comment you made on LinkedIn. They might go and Google you. And if you have a LinkedIn profile, even if you have a website like I do with my business, your LinkedIn profile shows up first on the first page of Google. And so, that might be the first place, the first impression people get of you. So if they go to your LinkedIn profile and it's like practically non-existent, that they may never want to reach out to you or hire you or have a call with you or whatever. So, think about that LinkedIn presence that you have as your digital footprint. Have it be a compliment to your website, have it be a compliment to your corporate career, and really pay attention to it. It is vital in this day and age. And I don't work for LinkedIn, just so you know. Disclaimer.

Allison: 48:29

That's right. Disclaimer. Listen, everything you've shared is just such a masterclass. And I think only touch the surface. So, I am urging you on your way to work and you're listening to this make a note before you get out of your car in the parking garage or wherever you're putting your car to take this action. It only benefits you to win and your company or your university. It's a win-win. They want you to be a standout. But there's no, this is how you do it department at your company. Unfortunately you nailed it. They're just hoping that someone will know how to. Navigate this and now you do. And you can reach out to Kate, which you should.

Kate: 49:22

Thank you.

Allison: 49:22

And please share this. Share it with someone who needs it. Share it with someone who, their LinkedIn profile needs some love. You don't have to tell them, listen, you're really sucking a lemon here. But they'll get the gist. And you will have done a good in the world. Yes. Not for nothing. Leave a review too. It helps the algorithm know that people need this. And this is a joy for me because as a career marketer and publicist, I just feel like I'm sitting on gold. And even today, Kate, you shared things that I didn't know. Good. After this, I'm going to go and judge my profile. Good. Good. Alright. Until next time, I want you to know you have an edge as an author, you can grow your visibility. You can start today. You can put your humility aside because it is boring us to death. And you can step into the spotlight where you belong because no one is going to come and drag you out of the shadows. It's up to you. And we'll see you next week. I can't wait to find out what you do next.