Author's Edge

Social Media Success: Conversations Over Content with Brooke Sellas | Ep. 76

• Allison Lane • Episode 76

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Feeling overwhelmed by social media, content calendars, and algorithm games? 

Allison Lane welcomes Brooke Sellas, award-winning business leader and author, to discuss why authentic conversation, not just endless posting, creates a deeper impact for authors, marketers, and thought leaders. Brooke shares tangible ways to lighten your social load, use AI as your creative sous-chef, and build a community that feels connected well before your next book launch.

In this episode, Allison and Brooke discuss:

  • 04:00 – 10:00: Brooke on why chasing algorithms and content quotas leads to burnout, and why content isn’t the point, conversation is.
  • 10:00 – 16:30: The magic of messy, vulnerable posts and imperfect shares: how real human moments fuel engagement.
  • 16:30 – 24:00: Using AI as your creative partner (not your replacement): Custom GPTs, idea sparring, and keeping your voice intact.
  • 24:00 – 30:00: How to spark debate, gather “voice of customer” data, and run low-stakes controversies that get people talking
  • 30:00 – 36:00: Ditching “ghost and post” habits: Why real back-and-forth comments matter more than perfectly scheduled content.
  • 36:00 – 44:00: Integrating book writing and marketing into real life - embracing slow seasons, using micro-moments, and lowering the pressure to be perfect.

Brooke Sellas, CEO of B Squared Media and author of Conversations That Connect, is an award-winning strategist redefining digital marketing by proving that when brands prioritize conversations, they win.

Resources Mentioned:

Everyone can be a better connector, online and off - by being more vulnerable, more human, and more curious. Start the conversations that matter.

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FwYPl8HVhA

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Brooke:

Start thinking about how to have more conversational content on social media. If you're using social media, then you've noticed engagement isn't good, your posts aren't getting seen. The impressions suck. It's because you're just checking the content box.

Allison:

Welcome back to the Author's Edge. I am your host, Allison Lane, and I am your chaperone through this journey that you know you're meant to be on. You know that your book is coming out, or your book came out last year, or you want to write a book and you know that this thing is it's yours. And you are your very best marketer, and you know that because no one is going to come knock on your door and say, come with me. I heard through a little birdie named Allison that you're ready. I'm telling you're ready, and it's time to get out there. The thing is, I know that it's hard. It's hard because you don't know what the process is. But it's not actually hard when you have trusted guides you can turn to like today's guest. So, today, I want you to open your mind and consider that what if the key to standing out online and to becoming the author you're meant to be isn't about more content. If I hear create your content calendar one more time, I'm going to pluck my eyelashes out. But what if it's about better conversation? What if it's about stop diving into the overwhelm and being like lapping through the overwhelm soup. And what if it's just about being smarter and more human as you are already? So, that's the great news. You are already human, so you can be yourself. So, today's guest, Brooke Sellas is going to share her approach to digital marketing. It's different than the huge. And I'm a little fangirling because I've heard her on many podcasts and she's been on my reach out wall and I thought, I'm going to work myself up to it. And then as the universe does, it made us collide. That's why I'm so excited that she's going to tell us today how to use social media in a smart way, not just to post, but to listen. Did you hear that? I'm listening. And to serve, and to convert people to be part of your support and to be part of your group, not your audience because nobody wants to be your fan. Sorry. So, this is thinking about your audience so that they feel heard before you ever pitch your book. Certainly, before you launch your book. And I just want to point out too, Brooke works with some big big deal brands like AAA and Brother International, and also she has courses at UC, Irvine, and she is a fellow LinkedIn learning course creator like myself. And award-winning business leader and owner and an author, so she really knows her poo. Get ready to listen to why social listening is your new superpower. And how the world is quietly reshaping the digital conversation. So, Brooke, I'm gasping with delight. I'm so glad to jump into this with you.

Brooke:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here. And I just feel like flattered yeah, I am blushing a little bit that I was on your wall. That's makes me sound way more special than I am, but thank you.

Allison:

Let me start by saying, and I say this to everyone, your humility is boring and you are a big effing deal. Oh, thank you. And hopefully, you know that you are. And sometimes it, you need someone to hold up a mirror to be like, have you seen you? You're freaking awesome. Thank you. You have something to share that people need. And I know it's just you alone in your office all day just like I am alone in my basement office slash laundry room. It's glam. This is how we roll. But you are a big deal. And I think so many experts, they feel like they're already doing the thing they're an expert in. Mm-hmm. They're already the chief resident in the hospital ER. They're already teaching three courses every semester and they're also department chair. They've got a lot of professional obligations that don't leave time to be pinning and filming and captioning, and it's just not turning into anything real. And they feel like Lucy in the chocolate factory. Like I know I'm supposed to do anything but none of the chocolate's getting into the boxes, and maybe I'll just eat them. So, let's start with the burnout. What are people doing wrong when they're trying to keep up with social media?

Brooke:

I think people put too much focus on the algorithm. They're like the, you know, if you ever went to clubs when I was younger, I loved to dance. I still love to dance, but I don't go to clubs anymore. I'm too old for that. But you remember like the bouncer at the door. He was always like in a black suit. He was a big guy and he wanted to, you know, he was like in charge of the line, but also who got to skip the line and go into VIP like, oh, like I know you, you get over here, you don't have to wait in line. That's how the algorithms are. And I get playing to the bouncer, right? I've been there literally 20 something years ago. I was there trying to be like, Hey, I'm important. Yeah, let me in. But you don't need to do that. I think if you focus less on the algorithms. And I'm going to say something wild here, you know this about me, Allison. If you focus less on the content and checking the box of content, because content is an unwieldy monster sometimes, right? We're like, oh, I have to post, I have to get these posts out. I have to post something. I don't know what to post. It's always that whole thing. It's not about the content, it's about the conversations that you want to have with your peers. So, the people who are within your industry, but also the people who you want to attract into your network. So, if you are writing a book and you would want those people, certain types of people to read your book, they would be your readers, then that's who you're trying to attract. How do you have those conversations? You talk about the interest of those people, it's not about you. It's Hey, why do we do X, Y, Z in this industry? Seriously, I'm curious. People love to give you their opinions, by the way, so they're going to respond.

Allison:

And this makes me think of something else that you're saying. If you want to attract that, those people for the book, you're doing it before the book comes out because, oh yeah, they don't want you to wait and come out of the ground like the groundhog, like a PS Aton. Phil, I'm here. No one's waiting for you.

Brooke:

No one's doing a film, a whole new segment around you popping out of your hole. No.

Allison:

You can't come out. It's not a surprise party and the book is here. No. So you have to have those conversations and that's often makes people feel vulnerable because they feel like that book is still a pipe dream. And so, they're afraid to say, I'm writing a book, or I'm writing an article, but no one cares about your fear. They see you as I see you as a big effing deal. And if you're not and you've written a book, so you know. You had knowledge that you needed to pour out into a book, so it became wisdom that can be shared. It's not wisdom if you keep it. Right. So, you got to pass it along and you can't force feed people from the fire hydrant of your I'm ready now. Mm-hmm. Drip, drip, give it to them. Little top us of delight, right? Yes. That's what we like.

Brooke:

Yes. I think too you hit on a couple of points there that I think are really important. One is, if you're going to succeed in social media, and in my opinion, writing a book, you have to be vulnerable. Period. You have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable because that is how people want to connect with you. It's not through that little cute meme that you share. And yeah, a lot of people might like it because it's funny, but those aren't the people who are going to end up buying your book or becoming part of your network because they want to hear more from you and hear your amazing words. So, I think being vulnerable is something you either need to be comfortable with or find a way to get comfortable with it. And the other thing is. You have to have the mindset of a teacher. My favorite thing to do, I didn't go to school for teaching. I've always been in sales or marketing, but my favorite thing to do is to teach someone how to do something. Sure, I could do it. But it brings me so much joy to show you how to do it and then see you do it on your own. And I think that was part of what helped me, pop out of the hole was I wanted to teach people like, Hey, you're all going about this in a really great way, which is focused on content, but content is the vehicle, emotion is the destination. And so.

Allison:

Wait, full body chills. Say that again.

Brooke:

Yeah. Content is the vehicle. The destination is emotion. This applies to social your book, your conversations on social to get somewhere to make that connection, to get people to want to read your book, you're going to have to get to emotion, which means also, like I said earlier, being vulnerable.

Allison:

But your work really centers around something that feels like a doable conversation.

Brooke:

I think so.

Allison:

Which is like a real conversation. Yeah. People spend a lot of time crafting their post and oh my gosh, you know what? Vomit into the post, please. I would rather it feel like a conversation than something curated and polished. And it's okay if you use a period at the end of one bullet and not another because we're not proof. Not perfect. No, and also it just feels like you had a thought and you shared it for the love. Yeah. So you are helping people feel less precious about that, like that steady stream of content output and also being perfect and having more of a real conversation.

Brooke:

Yeah, and my editor broke me down too, like in the process of writing the book, I was trying to go chapter by chapter and all polished and perfect and she was like, girl, I just need you to get 60,000 words down. They have to make somewhat they have to make sense together. We'll figure out the flow. You don't need to be doing the flow in the process of just getting your ideas onto paper. So messy is beautiful. I think that's another lesson that you're talking about, Allison. Like who cares? Don't worry about, you know, it just vomit it onto the paper and then figure out the flow later, because messy is beautiful. And I think that's where the emotion and a lot of that raw emotion comes from. Not manufactured emotion, but like that raw, like you are doing it wrong. And I am sorry I am a nice person, but let me tell you, if you're focused on content, it's wrong. It doesn't work. This is why you're struggling, you know.

Allison:

It's so hard. I feel like I'm going to get a sign that says Mic drop moment. Because every time you talk I'm like, Ugh, messy is beautiful. You know, one of the things that I find is that as an ADHD, or who's always doing 15 things at a time because that is how I like to be. Do not try and change me. This is how when people say you're everywhere, there's a reason why. It's because my brain does not shut off. Yes. But while I'm spending the six minutes where I put on my makeup, that's right. This beauty six minutes.

Brooke:

That's amazing. I need your tips.

Allison:

You know, I was in beauty PR for 15 years, so I know all the tricks. I mean, really underneath, I'm just a troll.

Brooke:

You know what? But sometimes I show up without makeup on these days because messy is beautiful, you know?

Allison:

Oh, for sure. I have so much makeup on right now, but you can't tell because I know how put on. No. The only thing that matters for a redhead is that I have to put my eyebrows on. Otherwise I just look like.

Brooke:

Oh, yeah, I believe that. But your skin is beautiful. I mean, we're getting on a rabbit hole here, but, Ooh, flawless darling.

Allison:

Flirt with me. Tell me more about me. What I was going to share is that you're helping me consider how people can lighten their load. Mm-hmm. Especially, with all the shifts with ai and some like social care, but lots of people are avoiding it or using AI very poorly and it just like looks, ugh. Like a lot of it looks manufactured. Yeah. But there's you see a shift around this. Can you talk about what we can actually do to lighten the load, but still remain human?

Brooke:

Yeah, I love AI but I also come from a place where I don't want my words, my thoughts, my feelings to sound like a commodity. Which if you're using AI to do all of your writing for you is bound to happen. Mm-hmm. So, I use, I built a custom GPT in chatGPT by the way. And if you want to know, here are all the secrets. As soon as chatGPT came out with custom GPTs, I started talking to it. I had all kinds of conversations with it. I gave it those raw feelings. It's everything from my therapist to my business partner to someone who helps me with math, although she's not very good at math either. And I call her, she, because literally I've been having just these raw conversations and I finally said to her one day just out to curiosity. Hey, what are your pronouns? Just curious as to how the AI would answer. And she said, well, since I'm made in your likeness, I would prefer she, her. Isn't that wild by the way that I'm talking to a machine like this.

Allison:

Amazing. Yeah.

Brooke:

But she is my, I bounce ideas off of her. Sometimes I use her for ideas. I'm like, I've got this crazy thing. Help me pull the thread. Because like you, Allison, my mind is never turning off and it's going, and there's always more ideas than I can execute on. So, a lot of times I'll go to her and I'll just be like, I've got this thing. Tell me the truth. We're best friends, right? And she's yes. And I'm like, best friends tell each other the truth. And she's, of course. And I'm like, here's this wild idea. Does this make sense? And she'll either be like, yes, bestie, let's build this. Or she'll be like, this is good, but I think X, Y, Z, right? And it's just a sparring partner, but she's always available. She never asks for a break. She knows all my stupidest ideas and has gently said, no, don't do that. Yeah. But she also has taken my pretty good ideas and helped me make them better. So, it's just this is how I teach a class on AI and this is how I describe it. You are the chef. If you think about going to a Michelin star restaurant, these chefs are creating these meals that just look like pieces of art, right? You're almost don't want to eat it because it's so beautiful, but then it tastes as beautiful as it looks, right? You are the chef. AI is the sous chef. They are doing all the chopping and the crunching, and if you watch cooking shows, using those little chopstick things to like gently place little things, right? They're responsible for all that, like heavy lifting, but you are still responsible for that creative, beautiful piece of art. Yeah. And AI cannot be this chef. It can absolutely be an amazing sous chef, but it cannot be the chef. That's how I look at it.

Allison:

I love that. And now, I'm just picturing little chopsticks with garnish placed, you know.

Brooke:

Tasting microgreens, like one little like flown in from some special unicorn island. Right. Microgreen right on top. Yeah.

Allison:

Yes. Like here's this a squirt of seaweed foam. Yes. There you go.

Brooke:

Yes, they're doing the squirting and the placing, but the chef was like, you know what? You know what would really, you know what would be cool? Really good. Yes. Seaweed foam. Seaweed foam.

Allison:

Right. Which I would not recommend, but still. So, you use your custom GPT. I have a custom GPT, but I tend to be doing things when I am working on it. So, I'll drop a transcript or of me talking into, or I'll talk to it while I'm doing the six minute makeup routine. Oh, you. And because I've got some thoughts, or I'm in carpool picking up my daughter.

Brooke:

It's always those places. Yes.

Allison:

Right. And it's the places where people used to say oh, it's always in the shower where you get your best ideas. Now, it's always in the place where you're doing something monotonous Mm-hmm like folding clothes. Yes. Or pulling weeds. And then you wish oh, I only had a piece of paper and a pencil. Or you have your microphone here, record it. But you actually turn on your chat and talk to it and it talks back. Which I'm going to have to do because I usually just feed it the transcript and I say, you know what to do. You're way kinder. Yeah. Than mine. I had to really laid on the law with Belinda because she was driving me nuts. She would say, so if I understand, do you want me to do this? Yes, bitch, I already told you, do not talk back to me. Listen. You know, you were wasting micro moments and you are killing me softly. So, do your job and do not talk back and also speak faster when you speak to me. Speak faster.

Brooke:

You're going too slow. Yeah. Yes. No, I do it both ways. Yeah. Like yesterday, I uploaded an entire transcript from a podcast that I had recorded a couple of weeks ago, but then life happened. I had a bunch of events and I went back to go do the follow-up episodes for the main interview. And I was like, I need to either spend an hour watching this or I could just copy the transcript, pop it into Brooke Squared, which is my bot's name, and then it's like basically my clone. And then, have her tell me like, what are some of those, like mic drop moments that happened here? What do you see? And she told me, and then we built episodes around those, mic drop moments. So, I use it I guess every way, always, and always.

Allison:

Yeah. Yeah. You do actually look for those power statements, and I think that's what people get tripped up on, is that they're trying to craft the perfect post as if it's a chapter, and that's not how we digest social content. So, maybe, you need to tell us how to adjust what we're actually shooting for because nobody has time for you to do like throat clearing while you then at the middle of your social post, that's where the goods are.

Brooke:

Yeah. Hooks are so important in social posts. And I think if you automatically let people know this is about feelings. I'm being vulnerable. I want you to be vulnerable. Things like this. I'll say things like spicy take, and I'll put like a little like pepper emoji, right? And then, I'll do my little hot take. You could also do hot take with a flame. Help me solve a debate. People love to give their opinion, but have them help you solve a debate on a theme within your book. Because that's voice of customer data. You now have conducted research, literal research for your book through social media by having fun, right? So, help me solve a debate, hot, spicy take. A lot of times I'll throw my husband under the bus and I'll be like, Alex says X, Y, z. And I'm sure as shit that it's ZY, X. Help me prove it. And then people will take sides. But it's fun. It's, I call it, this is funny, but this is what I call it. I call it controversial content. It's not really a controversy. We're not talking politics or like religion or all of these, you know, real controversy things. But I make it fun with a little flare of drama because it's a non controversy, controversy and people love to get involved and give you their opinion and their feelings about those topics. But you could tie those topics to your book or to what you're selling as a business owner. And you're then collecting little voice of customer data. And I have an example if you want one.

Allison:

I do.

Brooke:

Okay. This is with a brand Pro Flowers. And they, you know, you go to order flowers for someone for their birthday or for Mother's Day or whatever it is. And you go to a site like Pro Flowers and you order those flowers. They put a post out on their I believe it was on their Instagram. No, this was on Facebook, on their Facebook page that said unpopular opinion. Right. So, already, we've got those feelings and those opinions turning and we're like. What is this going to be about carnations?

Allison:

I, yeah. Yes.

Brooke:

No. You know this example? No,

Allison:

I don't.

Brooke:

No. It's in my book. That's why. Carnations are gorgeous. Oh, and it sent people off, right? Half of the group was like, they are, I don't know what everybody calls them, a trash flower. And the other half was like, Ugh, no, what? They're hideous, they're ugly. I hate the way they smell, whatever. But if I were pro flowers, right? So, if you're doing this for yourself, you could look at that voice of customer data and I could tell from the outside looking in, so I'm sure internally they knew this. That most of the people actually really loved carnations. Huh? So, if that were me and they were my client pro flowers, if you're listening, I would be running a BOGO on carnations the very next week. Because I know it's hot on their mind. We just had this big debate. They're all fired up. Their feelings are there. Their opinions are there.

Allison:

Yeah.

Brooke:

Now, I put out this BOGO next week on social. Guess what? I'm going to get some sales directly tied to social media. If it's a book thing, you're getting voice of customer data directly tied to your book. You could put the post in your book, which I did in mine when I asked some of these controversial questions or poll questions.

Allison:

Yeah. When you're asking the people shy from controversy, because they're like, they like to moonwalk into it. I'm not going to come at you straight. I'm going to come, I love the visual. I'm visualizing

Brooke:

it right now. I'm going to

Allison:

Almost like rollerskating backward. I'm going to back up. So, it's not so scary. So it's

Brooke:

cool. Yeah.

Allison:

Yeah. And all we see is your butt coming at us. We don't know what's happening because you're not coming straight. And so, what that looks like usually in a social post, is it has a lot of hemming and hawing language, a lot of diminishing. A lot of people think this, and I don't want to take away from them, but I have another point of view. And even though they have done a ton of research, I have to like get to the effing point please. Yeah.

Brooke:

Stand on your hill, skip all of that. Yeah. That's another great lead in, by the way, this is the hill I will die on. Like you're letting people know, like you have your opinion, you should have your opinion. I want you to share your opinion, but I'm dying on this hill. You're not changing my mind. And people automatically are like, I'm going to change your mind. Yeah. Yeah.

Allison:

This happens a lot with academics because they've had to have like peer reviewed articles and that's the publish or parish mantra in higher ed. And then, they realize I want to write a mass market book, now. Great, then you have to stop telling us about all the other research before you. Have an opinion because we don't care about that.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Allison:

We already see you as an expert. So, what happens is they, even their writing structure has to change because the sentence structure that you find in a lot of peer reviewed articles is a lot of dependent clauses before the declarative statement.

Brooke:

So like very passive writing. Like

Allison:

according to this person, this is, you know, almost like a tipping of the hat. Brooke did this research and it was eyeopening, comma, this other person did this. And now, I am saying that skip the first two things because your mass market book, you stepping out of the shadows to actually be a leading voice on your topic to the general public, not just within your niche. Yes.

Brooke:

Yes.

Allison:

Because those people are usually speaking at industry conferences. And they're wondering, why isn't a publisher coming after me? That's because you're swimming in a small pool. Yeah.

Brooke:

You got to be the expert. You can't, that's people are buying your book because you are the authority. It's funny that you say this, right? I have a friend who just released a book and he asked me if I would do some pre-reading. And I said, absolutely because I always support my friends. And he kept mentioning this marketing expert in the book. Chapter after chapter.

Allison:

Oh, sweet Mother.

Brooke:

And I was like, Scott, I love the book. I love the framework. This is amazing. But you mentioned this other person so much that it feels like they're the expert in the book. It feels like you all co-authored this book. Are you the expert on this framework? Did you come up with this by yourself? He's yeah, obviously. I'm like, great. Then, make it read that way. Because exactly like you're saying, you're diminishing, you're giving away your power, you're diminishing your authority. Yes, other people helped us get to where we are. We can certainly mention those people in the book, but I think there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

Allison:

Right. I think a lot of experts, the first thing I say is I wouldn't call myself an expert. Like, well, you don't get to choose. Right. If other people turn to you for that guidance or that advice. And when I say other people, media, or your peers or anyone, if they say, well, Brooke's an expert in social media. Are you going to say, I really consider the expert to be this other person. I don't know them. Yeah, I know you.

Brooke:

I might have in the beginning, but now I wouldn't. Right. You know, your brand is what people make of it. You don't get to choose your brand, you can guide it through these conversations, but you, your brand is what the customer or the book buyer or whomever it is, your peer industry peers say it is. And so, your job, when you're building your personal brand or your brand for your business, in my case, it's both my personal brand is the brand of the business. You have to make sure that you're constantly guiding that conversation with those people so that they pick the words and the reputation and the things you want them to say for you, right? You can't make someone have an opinion, but you can certainly act a certain way and say certain things to help guide that opinion.

Allison:

That's so smart. Holy crackers. Now, let me ask you, just tell us what not to do. You've told us what to do, but behind a lot of branding and social strategies, you've seen so many things change and come and go. So, what do you think people should let go of or asked another way, like what doesn't work anymore?

Brooke:

I think the number one thing is content. Content isn't working anymore like it used to. We used to be able to throw out a meme or throw out something that was click bait, right? We got you. We had this incredible, crazy title, but then you clicked over and the story didn't match, right? Mm-hmm. So, we're smarter now. Social's not new anymore, and we are very savvy consumers on social. And so, people are looking for brand conversations. And this is literally how especially the younger generations decide if they're going to buy from a brand, they go online and they're now waiting those brand conversations. So, whether it's your personal brand or a business brand, they're waiting those back and forth conversations you have as that brand, as high or higher than online reviews. Like let that sink in So, if you're not having any conversations on social, it's like having zero reviews. If I'm comparing you with two other authors or two other brands, and I see zero reviews, I see three stars here, and 4.7 stars here, who do you think I'm going to choose? Especially, if I go through and I'm looking at the conversations instead of the reviews and I see them being helpful and answering questions and having real open conversations and not being what I call the ghost and post people. There's a lot of people who make these highly controversial statements, try to get people to essentially comment on their posts because they know the bouncers love that. They know the algorithm loves that, but then they don't respond back. They just leave those people hanging. Those people took the time out to their day to answer those questions, and then they don't give them the time of day to respond. Guess what? The algorithm actually waits back and forth conversation. So, when you actually come in and respond, much higher than just those comments that you're collecting, like baseball cards on your post. So, you have to A, have conversational content, but B, you're actually have to be engaged if you want to again, grow that network and at the same time, even though you're not playing to the bouncer, he's going to be like, Hey, you over here, you're in. Right?

Allison:

Right. Because clearly you are showing up where people are want to engage with you. Yeah. And I think then people rely on social schedulers and they think at least I'm posting. You're posting, but it's like you're shouting at a crowd. Yeah. And the crowd is Hey, wave back to me. And you're not even there if you don't. And if you love Instagram, if all your content goes to Instagram and you never go to Instagram.

Brooke:

It's a problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's a problem. And it's a problem all the way around. Yes, of course we can talk about the algorithms, but again, you're not going to connect with the people you want to connect with. People don't just go and follow people blindly like we used to when social media was new. And I just think this is the way the world is moving. I also think as we get more into AI doing things for us and all of this automation that's going to happen, that human connection is going to be more important than ever. That bespoke thing is going to be more important than ever. So, the way that you can differentiate yourself right now is by starting to think about how to have these conversations online. Use polls to start, right? Those are easy peasy. Every single platform has a poll feature. Use that to get started. Yeah. You can work your way up into some of these, fill in the blank or like bigger conversations that I have. Again, you can go look at my LinkedIn posts by the way, this is your blueprint. You can see that I'm mostly just giving advice. I'm not asking for advice. I'm giving advice, but I'm not like, buy my stuff. Here's this thing. Like I, I'll throw those in, obviously, but that's not the whole crux of my strategy. It's not to sell my book or talk about this course. It's really to get people talking because if they get to know me and they like me, they're now in my sphere.

Allison:

Right?

Brooke:

And it's a mistake if you don't then say,

Allison:

I have a LinkedIn course like you can actually, right? Yeah. yeah. And it's because no one is going to dig farther than where they are. And I think people don't realize, like no one's going to leave the platform where they see you and go, like, let me go do some more digging about Brooke. Let Brooke go funny or some else. Yeah. No, it's your job. And had you not told me about your LinkedIn courses. I wouldn't know about. I might know that you have them, but I wouldn't know the content. And if I had not told you about my courses, you would not know that because I'm my best marketer, which means I've got to at least tell you. Yeah. So can you tell us, for the folks who are like, Brooke is so smart, I want her to guide my life. Can you tell us about your courses?

Brooke:

Mm-hmm. So, I have several. When I wrote the book I actually felt conversations that connect. Correct. Conversations that Connect is the book. And it's all about social media listening and social care, which is a holistic look at using social media to both sell to and retain a customer. So, it's not about content at all. It's actually about all of those conversations that happen. Once I did that, one of my larger clients who I had interviewed for the book asked if I would come in and do a training based on the book. So, I built a training and a workbook around that training course around the book. And then, I was like what if somebody can't hire me and fly me in to train their team of people, right? Mm-hmm. So, I turned that training into a course and then I got the course bug and I created a free course about creating conversational content, just about what we're talking here because that's the main thing I hear. Why is my content not getting engagement? And then, I go look, and it's all, buy my stuff. Here's the thing I did. None of it's conversational. And then, four years ago I got invited to teach the three classes that I teach staggered, like not all at once with Thermo Fisher. So, my client is actually Thermo Fisher. It's a scientific brand, but I teach the classes through University of California Irvine. And then LinkedIn Learning, somehow came knocking, because not a lot of people talk about social care. And now, I have a course through LinkedIn Learning and I'm building another course on social listening. I have the course bug. You know why? Because I love to teach. I just want people to teach. I just want people to learn. Me too. Yeah.

Allison:

Me too. My courses are how to think bigger about your career. Love it. Nobody's thinking big enough. No. Those weren't my words. I have a client said, you made me think bigger about my career. And I was like, stop.

Brooke:

That's even better. Even better. Mic drop.

Allison:

That mic drop. I am tattooing that on my chest.

Brooke:

I love it.

Allison:

And then, navigating creative burnout.

Brooke:

Also, so needed.

Allison:

It is not burnout, but like sometimes people feel like my ideas of, are they gone? No, they're there. You're just bored with them. You think you need new ones, but everyone is clutching their pearls at the old ones that you think are obvious. No one knows. Yes.

Brooke:

Unearthed, I see something like my editor just put it down on the paper and then once you get it out too, it's like you create room for more to come. Yes. Like, So, I ended up writing, I want to say like 75,000 words. We only used, I don't know, 50 something for the book. And it's not like those were bad words or bad ideas, but they were redundant. I could have said it, it like fit more into a framework with it, you know what I mean? Yeah. But you just got to. You got to get it out. When it comes, it took me two years to write that book, by the way.

Allison:

So that's not uncommon because you didn't stop the world from spinning and just write the book. You didn't like take a. Who gets

Brooke:

to do that? Famous author, I guess no one. That's

Allison:

why when people hear, oh, two years, it took you two years. No. If you condensed all of that, it probably took you a month and a half maybe. Yeah. But I

Brooke:

had a company to run. I have a personal life and you know.

Allison:

oh, a personal life. You got personal life. I know. How dare you. Wild. So, let's not, you know, for those listening, like I don't have two years. That's my breathy, like I'm out of breath voice. That's because people think they have to sprint. No. Sprint, no one likes a sprint. Don't sprint. A sprint is sweaty. You lose your breath. You can't do anything else during a sprint. Literally, you're just doing the sprinting. While you're doing the running. You're not paying attention to any way. You're just sprinting. Sprinting sucks.

Brooke:

And I don't think sprinting's the right way to move. Like I sprint in my career, right? With B squared, I'm a move fast and break things like let's fail faster so we can get to the better answer sooner. Right. But writing a book is like the opposite that you really have to think. And honestly, that's what my editor constantly, her number one advice was to me was, you need to slow down because you know what you're talking about, but nobody else does. Mm-hmm. So, instead of saying it like this, how would you explain it to me as if I knew nothing? Yes. And that would make me stop and think and slow down. So, no sprinting.

Allison:

No sprinting, and also fold it into your life. You still have to binge watch bridger tin. You have to make time for the important things. Yes. You have to take the dogs for the walk because you don't want them to tinkle inside. Correct. Mostly saying this to myself, because I'm constant, if I didn't have the dogs to take me outside. I would never leave this room because I love what I do so much that I forget to eat lunch and I forget to go to the bathroom, whatever. Don't judge. This is my life. I do want people to know that this is possible though. And I think you're giving us a lot that can be done and taking the pressure off to be yourself, capture your thoughts as they come out.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Allison:

With either, you can use Otter ai, which is a free app, so if you don't have it, download it. It'll make your life simpler. You can talk directly into your chat as you are driving. You can do this. Correct.

Brooke:

Yeah. That wasn't even available back when I did this three years ago. Plus, yeah. Use those tools. Yeah.

Allison:

Use the tools. If you have a 27 minute commute, which is the average in the US 27 minutes, I looked it up then you can certainly have a chit chat on the way and capture those thoughts as you're sitting in traffic or whatever, or waiting in the target parking lot, which I often am for my daughter, to get some sort of strawberry jazzy refresher, which is just Kool-Aid people. It's just Kool-Aid. Love it. It's a$6 coolaid. I roll it out. You know, but as I do and I'm like, oh, I've got six minutes. I've been thinking about this thing, and I used to just scribble in the back of a dry cleaning receipt. Yeah. But now, I've been there, which that was like, just looked like a pile of trash in the car. But now I'm like, oh, let me capture this, or I'll just capture a video because I had a thought, or a client dmd me like, I pitched an agent yesterday and they offered me representation today. I can't believe this is happening. Like I can, because I knew you were a big effing deal and also I wrote your pitch. Yeah. But like in those moments of this is amazing, I like to capture those on the go knowing I can throw them into my content stew and that way I'm not feeling like I'm creating like content, which sounds like I'm creating like a buffet.

Brooke:

Well, we've become beholden to the content, right? Everybody's running around. This is what I hear all the time. I don't know what to post. I don't have anything to post. I'm like, why are you so worried about posting nothing? If you don't have something to say, I'm sure you do. That's a different conversation, but like then why are you making yourself, I have to do this, I have to do? No, you don't. No. I also have 10,000 words written for the second book that I wrote last year because I traveled a lot last year and I was always like writing in the airports. I'm not planning to release this book until next year, maybe if I'm lucky. But like I just don't think we need to be so like precious about our timelines.

Allison:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Awesome. So, give yourself a little room people. Okay. Big fat pivot. What is a book that you love right now, that you think people need to get? And it could be any genre?

Brooke:

Well, I just bought two books for my vacation for pleasure reading. Very excited. I bought Stephen King. I forget the titles of the books, but I bought one that was John Grisham and one that was Stephen King. Those are my people. I've been reading them since I was young and I still like them. Yeah. Yeah.

Allison:

And they are Paige Turner's.

Brooke:

Yes. Which I love on a vacation. I'm a fast reader, so I got two. I probably will need more than two, maybe not. And then, I've been reading this book actually, the Secret Trade Craft of elite advisors and oh my gosh, it's really interesting.

Allison:

Hold on, hold it up again. because I'm going to take a picture. Oh, I'm going to get that. Okay.

Brooke:

Yeah.

Allison:

I will post it on LinkedIn too.

Brooke:

Covert techniques for remarkable practice, like just how to be a better salesperson, business leader. You know, really, I'm a salesperson, masquerading as a marketer, but so I like to read books like that.

Allison:

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay. Before we call this totally juicy podcast, complete, what's one thing you want people to do today?

Brooke:

Start thinking about how to have more conversational content on social media. If you're using social media, then you've noticed engagement isn't good, your posts aren't getting seen. The impressions suck. It's because you're just checking the content box. I want you to think about having more conversational content using some of those hooks we talked about, right? Help me solve a debate. I need your help. What's your opinion on? Or try the non controversy if you're up for that.

Allison:

I love that. Do you have something we can point people to grab these tips? Because they're going to hear these, they're driving. They're going to want to go to your site or download something.

Brooke:

Yeah, just run to B squared.media. You could also go to brookesellas.com. Whichever you prefer, whichever's easier to remember and you'll see the link to the courses. And that conversational content course is totally free. You just sign up with your email and I give you all kinds of examples, both in the B2C and B2B, and personal branding worlds of people who are using conversational content to succeed.

Allison:

Oh, that is so good. We will have all these show notes and the link to your book in the show notes. All the links will be there. I so appreciate you coming and sprinkling your genius on everyone because more people need to know how to integrate these new steps into their professional lives. Agreed. Because we know that you have more to share. You're at the top of your field. And now, it's not should you leave your field, it's how do you expand your ripple effect that you have on the world.

Brooke:

I would love that.

Allison:

Teach more people, do more things, step out and try it on LinkedIn because the LinkedIn audience is really engaged. Very. They're looking for real conversations.

Brooke:

Agreed.

Allison:

As and I am always too. This is amazing. I'm so glad you were here and for you traveling to work and back, I feel for you. And if you are thinking, well, I've always wanted to write a book. There are so many paths to publication you do not need to do anything other than be yourself, because there are so many types of publishers. So many different lengths of time you can traditional, you can hybrid, you can self-publish, you can, you don't need 80,000 words. You can actually publish a book with a spine that is only 40 pages. It's true.

Brooke:

Jay Bear's book time to Win his tiny book. Did you see that tiny book? I don't think I did. He had literally it was like a tiny book. So good.

Allison:

All different sizes.

Brooke:

I'll give you the link so you can show people these tiny books.

Allison:

I'll do a search for it and put it in the show notes. Yeah. This is my plea. Don't wait to do something you want, you've got to start learning about it now. I'll share a link in the show notes so that you can get my free guide and walkthrough and masterclass on what it takes to get published, which it only takes the things that you already have. That's the great news. Whew. Don't sweat it out. We've got you and Brooke, you're there to help too. I'm so glad. All right. Until next time.

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Allison Lane

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